The loss of freedom of speech, of sidelining women and biology

Today's session of the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee.

www.scottishparliament.tv/meeting/equalities-human-rights-and-civil-justice-committee-june-7-2022

At one point there's talk of women wanting a genuinely female medic for religious reasons (no mention of other reasons).
No-one even suggested that transwomen actually are women/female.
Yet still they're going on with this confusion of sex & gender.

I don't think all female allies hate women.
I think for many it's a desire to be liked by the dominant side, or just to be dominant themselves - like all bullies.
Or to be kind without understanding, or just following along with what seems to be fashionable.

I'm not a psychologist so just musing here, but I wonder if the desire to compulsively dominate women because of early dysfunctional relationships with mothers lies behind the readiness of some female 'allies' to support patently misogynistic policies?

I'm not saying it's necessarily true, but I've never been able to understand women hating women, and it's one possible explanation.

I have just finished reading Adam Philip's latest book 'On Wanting to Change'. Interestingly the word 'gender' only appears once and the word 'trans' not at all. It's as though he and his publishers are at pains not to be cancelled. So the word 'conversion' is used. I felt I was perhaps reading between the lines in talking about and quoting others on 'perversion' he writes:
"Why do men compulsively dominate women? Because they felt dominated by their mothers in childhood. Indeed, though unnecessarily crude, it would be possible to see male identity – and perhaps female identity in a different way – as converting childhood trauma into adult triumph (misogyny is always triumphalist)."
earlier he stated how the need to erase the mother was essential. This need to erase seems familiar in what we are as a society experiencing now.
I am not suggesting that this comprehensively describes the desire for transgenderism. There was a time when I was full of hope that it would be the way that women, at last, achieved human equality with males. But that was before Stonewall took over and took power into their hands to subvert and change society at the level of language and laws that started erasing women. We have to be very mindful brave and keep fighting. Never underestimate the patriarchy.

DiamondLily, that report on the nhs website. That really makes me angry. The sheer amount of control this most marginalised oppressed group has is terrifying. They have organized themselves to cooly manipulate without any respect. The small number of transmen they are catering for know a lot about their bodies and if they had signs of cancer would not be confused. But as DiamondLily says alongside many others, there are women who either aren’t educated enough or where English is not their first language.. where to get rid of the word woman, which of course every woman knows, is thoughtless at best, callous in extreme.

The Cass report in the UK is really clear that social transition is not a neutral act and that there is currently not enough evidence either for or against doing this.

"The NHS has dropped the word 'women' from its main online health advice for those being treated for cervical, womb and ovarian cancers.

Cervical cancer is now described on the health service's website as 'a cancer that's found anywhere in the cervix' while womb cancer affects 'the womb'.

To see the word 'women' being used to talk about female illness, patients have to click further into the website

England's NHS website - which is often the first port of call for people checking symptoms - previously used the word 'women' to talk about female cancers.

It used to say: 'Cancer of the womb (uterine or endometrial cancer) is a common cancer that affects the female reproductive system. It's more common in women who have been through the menopause.'

But now the NHS website writes: 'Most womb cancer usually starts in the lining of the womb (endometrium), this is also known as endometrial cancer.'

The move has come under fire, according to the Times, from researchers into birth and childcare who worry that those with poor language skills who already have 'worse health outcomes' could find it difficult to understand the NHS website."

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10891159/NHS-drops-word-women-internet-guidance-ovarian-womb-cervical-cancers.html

There are many adult women, now, who say that they would have jumped at the chance to 'be male' if that had been available to them when young.
Now they are very happy not to have done that.

Being homosexual doesn't require damaging alterations to bodies.

Being homosexual doesn't require everyone to pretend that an untruth is true.

People's bodies stay the same sex all their lives, whatever the individual may feel about it.

Is the person you mention a child who is transitioning?

FarNorth

You did say you are in favour of changing names and pronouns as you think that's harmless.
It is not harmless as it reinforces the idea that the child is actually the opposite sex from their real one.
If a child is distressed, they should have sensitive counseling to try to find the cause - not the sort of counseling that immediately affirms them as being the opposite sex.

Every child should be allowed to have the types of clothes, toys & interests they want.

Every account of a trans child, that I've seen, shows adults who can't accept that a child doesn't fit the stereotypes currently associated with their sex.

yes I am in favour of that. and other reversible such things

Of course children with any such issue should have counselling- but not the sort that dismisses the issue and 'looks for a cause'
that would be like looking for a cause for somebody being homosexual

continuing with a name and pronoun reinforces a child is not the gender they feel they are - that works both ways.

The actual person I know who is transitioning female to male does not have parents who can't accept stereotypes at all - far from it

That seems another' look for a cause' or blame the parents thing rather than accepting the issue is real
The way mothers were blamed at one stage if sons were homosexual - rather than that is just the way some people are.

Well put Doodledog and sadly accurate.
The older TRA supporters evidently don’t care about female rights and the younger supporters won’t realise the stupidity of what they are supporting until it affects their children or grandchildren. The TRA themselves were probably bullies at school and have just found a way to carry on their bullying.

Every account of a trans child, that I've seen, shows adults who can't accept that a child doesn't fit the stereotypes currently associated with their sex.
Agreed.

A child has to learn what is supposedly acceptable behaviour for his or her sex (it is not innate), and they learn that from adults (and to some extent from other children, who have also learnt from adults). Left to their own devices, children just play with whoever is there, and with whichever toys are available.

When adults with a vested interest in pushing trans 'rights' can't explain what it is to be a man or a woman, or what it means to 'live as' a man or a woman, or how anyone 'knows' that they are a man or a woman, how can a child know any of those things?

I realise that the chances of anyone attempting to explain that are slim to none. If the 'allies' would even attempt to explain things like that, there would be a basis for a conversation; but as it is they always refuse - either by diverting the conversation to something like Nazis or racism, by leaving the conversation for spurious reasons, such as 'you are not saying anything new', or 'be kind', attempting to take the moral high ground by asserting their 'credentials' as feminists or claiming to supporters of 'the most marginalised group in society', as defined by Stonewall, despite the fact that the police, the NHS and the education system (amongst others) are making it impossible for any employees to express anything but blind support for the right of transpeople to trample over the hard-earned rights of women. It's so frustrating.

Yes, I hope she is.

I would have thought that he would have to go under a Section 43, whilst in any jail.

They usually have to keep paedophiles away from the other prisoners.

He would be at risk, because he's a nonce - being TW is a bit of a side issue, safety wise.?

I hope Baroness Nicholson is successful in having the sentence reviewed. This isn't the first time a sniveling criminal has been excused jail by claiming to be a terrified transwoman.

I also hope he is not put into a women's prison, which could easily happen.

At least the DM article avoids using 'she' for that disgusting specimen.

Some of these images involved toddlers, under the age of 3 and were the most extreme - what they grade as "A".

I don't care what people choose to identify as, there is no excuse whatsoever.

They should have slung him in jail and thrown away the key.

He might have only looked, but each picture represents a real child being sexually abused.?

He must have known that the sentence for taking indecent photographs of children is a crime that carries a jail sentence. You do the crime, you do the time. If that thought makes you fearful of how you would cope, you don't do the crime. Whatever his gender, he has free will over his actions.

Unbelievable DL-though sadly not. Does that mean anyone with “issues and anxiety” about child abuse offences has a get out of jail free card?

It appears that being TW can be a "get out of jail free" card if there are worries about coping in prison...?

"A Tory peer is seeking a sentencing review after a paedophile who identifies as transgender was spared jail.

Baroness Nicholson is demanding action over the case of Peter Selby, who was caught with more than 125,000 child abuse images, including more than 2,400 that were classed as Category A, the most obscene.

Selby, 68, amassed the vile pictures and videos over a decade using internet search terms such as ‘pre teen’ and ‘jail bait’, and the collection featured pictures of children as young as three.

The paedophile, who was born male, admitted three charges of making indecent images of children and one of possessing extreme pornography, which involved an adult engaged in bestiality.

But the judge at Newcastle Crown Court was told that the paedophile was fearful about trying to manage in prison.

Making indecent images of children carries a maximum ten-year prison sentence but Selby was given a 14-month sentence, which was suspended for two years.

Recorder Geraldine Kelly said: ‘You identify as transgender and that has caused issues for you and anxiety for you in how you would cope with that if you were sent immediately to prison... the impact of custody would be significant for you in the circumstances.’"

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10887387/Backlash-transgender-paedophile-spared-jail-Peer-demands-review-sentence.html

You did say you are in favour of changing names and pronouns as you think that's harmless.
It is not harmless as it reinforces the idea that the child is actually the opposite sex from their real one.
If a child is distressed, they should have sensitive counseling to try to find the cause - not the sort of counseling that immediately affirms them as being the opposite sex.

Every child should be allowed to have the types of clothes, toys & interests they want.

Every account of a trans child, that I've seen, shows adults who can't accept that a child doesn't fit the stereotypes currently associated with their sex.

Mollygo

I’m sorry AussieNana, the déjà vu feeling is because you post very much like a poster I haven’t seen for a while.
Gender dysmorphia in adults is an adult issue and up to them to address. They deserve help and support, and it is their right to choose to damage their bodies either physically or chemically.
However, Elegran’s points above are of real concern.
Before it had this name, males were living as if they were females,
but their main aim was
not to make that blatantly obvious,
nor to use their choice with the intention of upsetting others,
nor to cheat and deprive females of their rightful awards,
nor to claim that they really were female and could therefore take positions or carry out actions where being female was essential.
Most of those genuinely suffering from g d have no wish to do any of those things, but their image is being blighted by those who see it as an opportunity to do all the above, and to inflict damage and harm on anyone who states the biological fact that you can’t change sex.

I doubt I am "a poster you havent seen for a while"

I joined a while ago and posted occasionally - perhaps a dozen in total until a few weeks ago when I posted more.

I have always been same user name.

The issue starts before adulthood - people dont suddenly get to be adults and realise they have this issue

I am against irreversible changes before adulthood - but I support children with this issue.

If I had a child who expressed this I would take it seriously not put it in 'well you dont get everything you want' basket or consider it on a level with a child wanting fast food all the time
Those sort of comments do see minimising and dismissing the issue to me - and would not be my approach to any minor with this issue.

I said right at the beginning I was not in favour of militant type action described.

FarNorth

Perhaps Jo Smith will be less keen to say how happy she is when women are routinely winning nothing.

I guess she knows the reaction, if she says anything now other than twaw.

It's not as though the women can form a breakaway team and ignore the usurpers. I'm not sure who foots the prize bill for cycling, but unless they came on board, along with the TV companies (and betting? Do people gamble on cycling?) there is really nothing the women can do. It must be so frustrating.

Wheniwasyourage

SueDonim

I see there’s a report from the Daily Telegraph saying that The census could ask “do you menstruate?” instead of “are you female?” to be inclusive of transgender people, a taxpayer-funded study has suggested.

Where that leaves those of us who are pre-pubertal, past the menopause or who have had surgery, I don’t know.

Not to mention women of childbearing age who are using a Mirena coil for contraception. Some of them don't menstruate either, but were they not adult human females, they wouldn't need the contraceptive coil, would they?

You couldn't make all this up. Surely it's all so ridiculous that the backlash must come soon. I wish the opposition parties would get themselves sorted out, as it's a bit alarming if the only lot who can say what a woman is turns out to be the disgraceful Tories.

"Do you menstruate?" might work (for some women) for about forty years of their life, but not for the first dozen or so, or the last twenty or thirty.

Perhaps Jo Smith will be less keen to say how happy she is when women are routinely winning nothing.

I guess she knows the reaction, if she says anything now other than twaw.

SueDonim

I see there’s a report from the Daily Telegraph saying that The census could ask “do you menstruate?” instead of “are you female?” to be inclusive of transgender people, a taxpayer-funded study has suggested.

Where that leaves those of us who are pre-pubertal, past the menopause or who have had surgery, I don’t know.

Not to mention women of childbearing age who are using a Mirena coil for contraception. Some of them don't menstruate either, but were they not adult human females, they wouldn't need the contraceptive coil, would they?

You couldn't make all this up. Surely it's all so ridiculous that the backlash must come soon. I wish the opposition parties would get themselves sorted out, as it's a bit alarming if the only lot who can say what a woman is turns out to be the disgraceful Tories.

Some excellent posts...special thanks to Doodledog. It does make one feel better to read them.
I looked up the rules for the lightning crit race approved by British Cycling...and well its unbelievable I'll quote:
“We took the decision last year to create a more gender-neutral categorisation system that allowed trans and gender-non-conforming athletes, who often feel that there is no safe space for them in the sport, to be embraced and made to feel welcome"
Since then transwomen won all the events females were allowed to take part in. It’s not rocket science, it’s men taking the piss and getting away with it. Disturbingly the young mother (Jo Smith) who was photographed holding her toddler on the third stand totally affirmed the decision and said it was wrong of gender criticals to complain...she is a well known cycle champion and obviously wants to be part of the winning gang.