Our bloated NHS - it’s beyond ridiculous now.

I think the French system sounds superb Mamie. You must have felt so relieved your daughter received such excellent medical care.

As I spent the evening with yet another ambulance crew who couldn't take my mother to hospital because there were not enough beds, we discussed the state of the NHS because my last urgent call to the ambulance service did not end with an ambulance arriving even though I waited up all night for it. Eventually the fire service friends of my husband arrived to lift my Mum up off the floor and get her into bed until the Community Nurse could get there.
Anyway, the crew said that there was plenty of money in the NHS but it was poorly spent. Millions go on poorly thought out software, bad decisions about equipment and vehicles were amongst their complaints. They said some of the decisions were made by managers who were operational years ago are based on what they used to do despite lengthy consultations with current operational staff and this just doesn't work efficiently. They are in despair. This is not the first time I have had this sort of discussion with NHS staff. One of my friends is Community Nurse who has been given a Queen's Nursing Medal and after 39 years of giving her all she has had enough. She has had to reapply for her job so many times for restructures, has seen the waste of money whilst her staff are worked to death and sits in meeting after meeting telling the managers that actually their new ideas have been tried and failed before. They won't listen to the feet on the ground or experienced staff.
It isn't a National Health Service either. Each Trust uses different IT systems so can't liaise. If you live on the Border you can be sent to a different Trust to where you live. They will set up all sorts of "help" from bought in services so you can be discharged safely only to find when you get home, you get a call to say that they can't do the things they thought they could do because you live 2 yards over the border. Consequently they have wasted hours of time for several members of staff to organise stuff you can't have. It is a joke.

Exactly Callistemon21

I read the link from volver concerning translators.

So one of many pieces of information and data provided. Your response to my posts including data early on was to ask if I was an NHS manager. That's not a debate is it?

The NHS is short of money
Really MaizeD? Short or just ill-targeted? What about the inclusiveness and diversity managers? How do they heal the sick?

sodapop

We pay 25 euros for each visit to the Dr part of that is refunded. Also 20 euros foe each visit to Urgences - A&E.

And all my medicine on my prescriptions are free, no money upfront.

I think passionate debate is a good thing. It’s nice that people care enough to have strong opinions about the things that matter to us all. Sometimes in the midst of this any of us can make an ill judged comment, an insensitive remark or even a personal criticism.
We are flawed humans and not robots. I enjoy all the different viewpoints expressed here. I’m impressed at the depth of knowledge of many of the posters on all forums but particularly on this one, and I’m learning a lot. Long may it continue.

Mamie

I think what we notice in hospitals in France is that there are far more doctors and nurses including ancillary nurses. Also the cleaners, porters etc are hospital employees not outsourced. I have no idea about management staff but the regional health authorities are the key providers.
We do pay 25€ up front to the GP, but get all but 1€ back. We can get a next day urgent GP appointment, but wait a few days for our own doctor.
The biggest difference is that we pay about 130€ each a month for our top-up insurance. Apart from serious illness which is 100% funded, treatment is funded at 70% and the top-up pays the rest. If you are on a low income you don't pay it and everything is 100% funded. We can afford it and pay it willingly.
There are shortages of GPs in rural areas and some specialists appointments need booking well in advance, but on the whole it is a very responsive system.
My DD needed an emergency operation on one visit and she said, "it was like a warm blanket of care".

The biggest difference is that we pay about 130€ each a month for our top-up insurance. Apart from serious illness which is 100% funded, treatment is funded at 70% and the top-up pays the rest. If you are on a low income you don't pay it and everything is 100% funded. We can afford it and pay it willingly.

I understand other countries have a similar system.

That is why the NHS needs change but every government is frightened to make an overhaul, they just tinker round the edges.

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Lido

May I respectfully suggest that the reason people lose it with Urmstongran is that she ignores the provision of data, facts, documentation, evidence, studies, surveys and polls presented as part of any debate. It makes reasoned debate almost impossible and people are only human.

I read the link from volver concerning translators.
?

And by the way I haven’t reported any posts in case anyone is wondering.

growstuff

Pantglas Two wrongs don't make a right. My sister has been told it will be at least two years before she has a knee replacement in England. She's already been waiting since before the pandemic started.

A friend has waited 4 years so far in Wales for knee replacement.

I am saving to go privately because I know I'm way behind him on the list.

kittylester

GrannyGravy13

The NHS is a behemoth, throwing more money at it without any plan is not in my opinion the solution.

It needs a radical reorganisation, since it’s inception medicine has advanced enormously, people are living with diseases and medical conditions which a few years ago would have killed them.

A cross party solution is needed.

Exactly GG.

There can't be a cross party solution when one of the parties is heavily invested in providing private health care.
This is a list of Tory MP with links to private health care companies in 2015
www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/selling-nhs-profit-full-list-4646154
I'll try to find a more up to date one.

GrannyGravy13

kittylester

growstuff, MaizieD, volver. and others

Your rudeness to urmston is appalling.

I agree

Seeing as I am in this illustrious company can I just point something out?

I was accused of lying in wait for particular poster and didn't respond. When that poster made another ill-informed assertion about vaccine research I responded and yes, used the term "daft" in relation to the assertion. I have since made a series of factual posts about various subjects.

So enough with the accusations of rudeness, eh?

I’m a long way from being far right. The problem as I see it today is we don’t have any left wing political parties at all. Labour under Starmer is another disguised Tory party and there are no socialist alternatives. We need a new radical political party in this country, or a revival of communism. Not the perverted version of it we’ve seen in Russia,China and other states but a real functioning ethical version of it.

I think what we notice in hospitals in France is that there are far more doctors and nurses including ancillary nurses. Also the cleaners, porters etc are hospital employees not outsourced. I have no idea about management staff but the regional health authorities are the key providers.
We do pay 25€ up front to the GP, but get all but 1€ back. We can get a next day urgent GP appointment, but wait a few days for our own doctor.
The biggest difference is that we pay about 130€ each a month for our top-up insurance. Apart from serious illness which is 100% funded, treatment is funded at 70% and the top-up pays the rest. If you are on a low income you don't pay it and everything is 100% funded. We can afford it and pay it willingly.
There are shortages of GPs in rural areas and some specialists appointments need booking well in advance, but on the whole it is a very responsive system.
My DD needed an emergency operation on one visit and she said, "it was like a warm blanket of care".

BeEmerald

DaisyAnne the answer is money, my dear. I’m old and I’d like to have something to leave my children. I just hope that I am capable enough to bow out gracefully before becoming incapacitated enough to watch any inheritance they’d get swallowed by care home fees.
Apart from that I believe if people have worked all their lives and paid National Insurance they should be given free quality Health Care.

Exactly. You could not afford it. I certainly could not afford private health care and this is why we have the NHS in the first place. You have decided to put what you have aside for your children. Something you would not be able to do in a wholely private health care system.

So why no objection to an OP that says "Our bloated NHS - it’s beyond ridiculous now." Why no comments about the very dubious set of figures and the trumpeting of far-right views. Views used to undermine the people running an underfunded and inadiquately structured NHS by a government that wants nothing run by government and tax cuts for the rich!

The far-right will talk about "going back to the 1950s" when everything seemed better because we had never had the access to such health care unless we were rich. The NHS gave us good basic health care and has been able to build on that until the Tories stopped adequate funding. They - the Tories - want to go back the the 1940s when there was no NHS.

Pantglas2

growstuff

Pantglas Two wrongs don't make a right. My sister has been told it will be at least two years before she has a knee replacement in England. She's already been waiting since before the pandemic started.

Of course they don’t Growstuff but this daft idea that only Tories get it wrong is ludicrous - my DH is living proof of Labour incompetence in Wales (north Wales in particular) as so many testify to Tory mismanagement in England!

I have never claimed that only Tories get it wrong - and I haven't seen many posts claiming that. Nevertheless, the facts speak for themselves. NHS funding has not kept up over the last ten years and an increasing amount is being siphoned off to private providers. Outcomes have reflected that.

May I respectfully suggest that the reason people lose it with Urmstongran is that she ignores the provision of data, facts, documentation, evidence, studies, surveys and polls presented as part of any debate. It makes reasoned debate almost impossible and people are only human.

GrannyGravy13

The NHS is a behemoth, throwing more money at it without any plan is not in my opinion the solution.

It needs a radical reorganisation, since it’s inception medicine has advanced enormously, people are living with diseases and medical conditions which a few years ago would have killed them.

A cross party solution is needed.

And what precisely do you know about running the NHS?

I love the way that people are coming on here and just saying things with very little or no evidence.

The NHS is short of money. It is short staffed and on its knees.

The moans about A & E and waiting lists and GP appointments and no dentists etc. are a consequence of this.

What else is so bad about it that it cannot be solved with proper funding but needs radical change?

And I'll remind you again. Keeping the NHS sort of funds is a political choice. There is absolutely no need to keep it short of money.

GrannyGravy13

The NHS is a behemoth, throwing more money at it without any plan is not in my opinion the solution.

It needs a radical reorganisation, since it’s inception medicine has advanced enormously, people are living with diseases and medical conditions which a few years ago would have killed them.

A cross party solution is needed.

Exactly GG.

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GrannyGravy13

Urmstongran posted upthread that she had worked in a hospital for 30 years.

That surely has given her an insight and first hand knowledge?

It depends what role she had. If it was shuffling bits of paper around, I doubt if she gained much insight into strategy or finance. Apologies if she did a senior job.

kittylester

*growstuff*, MaizieD, volver. and others

Your rudeness to urmston is appalling.

I agree

growstuff

Pantglas Two wrongs don't make a right. My sister has been told it will be at least two years before she has a knee replacement in England. She's already been waiting since before the pandemic started.

Of course they don’t Growstuff but this daft idea that only Tories get it wrong is ludicrous - my DH is living proof of Labour incompetence in Wales (north Wales in particular) as so many testify to Tory mismanagement in England!