Our bloated NHS - it’s beyond ridiculous now.

Exasperating isn’t it BeEmerald? Possibly the same surgeons too. But working under different management guidelines. Years ago people were told cataracts had to be ‘ripe’ enough for surgery. A fallacy according to my optometrist.

Ah DaisyAnne I can assure you that any stick I got hold of at the wrong end wasn’t intentional. It’ll be because I can’t see that well as my cataracts aren’t deemed bad enough to operate on, although if I pay privately suddenly and miraculously they definitely need removing urgently

Iam64

I’m sitting in the waiting room at Manchester’s Christie hospital, our centre of excellence for the treatment of cancer.
It’s a wonder to see the staff and system working so well

The comments here comparing stand up meetings in the private sector (good) with wasteful gossip meetings in the (bad) public centre are based on ideological belief systems, someone’s friend who was a switchboard operator cum expert on everything

Reading the nonsensical criticisms sitting here confirms I do not and never will accept criticism of the nhs or other public services, made by people who vote in the tories who continue to destroy and devastate rather than reform and support

My local cancer unit is fantastic. Every single member of staff delightful, kind and efficient. I have access to reflexology, yoga classes, exercise class, counselling, macmillan nurse etc.

Like education there are problems as I fear must be inevitable with mammoth organisations. However constant cuts, government interference etc underfunding…don’t help !, but heaven preserve us from privatisation and a USA style system.

P.S. I also knew instantly the OP identity ?

Urmstongran

I don’t really know what I mean growstuff. I’m not intelligent enough. All I know is this system isn’t working for some people. A&E wait times, ambulances parked up outside hospitals with patients waiting to be assessed, my friend who suffered a brain attack (also known as a stroke) and her husband frantically waiting 70 minutes for an ambulance to arrive - she has no speech 4 weeks later and is in a bad way.

I don’t know the answer but surely somebody does? Anybody?

Yes. Invest in more ambulance drivers and staff. I expect they'll want to be paid.

I don’t really know what I mean growstuff. I’m not intelligent enough.

I don’t really know what I mean growstuff. I’m not intelligent enough. All I know is this system isn’t working for some people. A&E wait times, ambulances parked up outside hospitals with patients waiting to be assessed, my friend who suffered a brain attack (also known as a stroke) and her husband frantically waiting 70 minutes for an ambulance to arrive - she has no speech 4 weeks later and is in a bad way.

I don’t know the answer but surely somebody does? Anybody?

Maybe you'd like to explain what you mean. Other advanced countries spend far more per head on health than the UK does.

I do not and never will accept criticism of the nhs or other public services, made by people who vote in the tories who continue to destroy and devastate rather than reform and support. Well said Iam64, hope all goes well for you at the hospital.

Fund it properly - other European countries do - definitely Iam64.

As long as people continue to think of the NHS as some sort of national religion, we're in trouble. Many like to think the NHS is the envy of the world, but it's not. It's a dilapidated and ramshackle embarrassment to a supposedly developed country. Pumping money in won't fix it. The whole model needs changing.

That doesn't mean a US-style system; European nations do it differently and have better health outcomes than we do. We should learn from them. If a new country was setting up a healthcare system, would it want to copy the NHS? I doubt it very much.

AGAA4

I used to be in and out of hospital in the 60s and the difference was the amount of nurses. Then there would have been a ward sister and 3 or 4 nurses.
When I was last in hospital about 8 years ago there was one nurse and one HCA. They were impossibly busy so I am annoyed by the criticism of nurses when it is the fault of government.

And the discharge times. When I had my tonsils out in the early 70s, I had to stay in hospital for five days. These days, it's a day procedure.

Urmstongran

If we don't get back to how things were done in the 50s and 60s the NHS is doomed to going from bad to worse, not despite the the amount of money thrown at it but BECAUSE of the amount of money thrown at it so the NHS can continue wasting it.

nonsense

Iam64

I’m sitting in the waiting room at Manchester’s Christie hospital, our centre of excellence for the treatment of cancer.
It’s a wonder to see the staff and system working so well

The comments here comparing stand up meetings in the private sector (good) with wasteful gossip meetings in the (bad) public centre are based on ideological belief systems, someone’s friend who was a switchboard operator cum expert on everything

Reading the nonsensical criticisms sitting here confirms I do not and never will accept criticism of the nhs or other public services, made by people who vote in the tories who continue to destroy and devastate rather than reform and support

I've spent quite a few hours sitting in a cancer unit too over the last couple of weeks and my experience is the same. Busy, caring people, who have been efficient and answered all my questions. Most of them weren't doctors or nurses. A receptionist took some medical details, tested my liver function and helped me get ready for an MRI scan. A counsellor spent time with me answering questions about how my treatment would affect me. A radiographer supervised the MRI scan. A researcher explained the trial I'll be undergoing. There was one consultant and a nurse.

I used to be in and out of hospital in the 60s and the difference was the amount of nurses. Then there would have been a ward sister and 3 or 4 nurses.
When I was last in hospital about 8 years ago there was one nurse and one HCA. They were impossibly busy so I am annoyed by the criticism of nurses when it is the fault of government.

My first child would probably have been born dead or severely disabled too.

volver

Should we have a thread on who would be dead if its wasn't for the modern, free-at-point-of-use NHS?

I'll start...

Is this going to be a meeting of ghosts?

Parsley3

Are people with mental health issues to be called time wasters? First step on the road to blaming people for their ill health.

They're already in that category according to some people.

Should we have a thread on who would be dead if its wasn't for the modern, free-at-point-of-use NHS?

I'll start...

B9exchange

Useful link showing that no-one is actually running the NHS
www.myhsn.co.uk/top-tip/who-runs-the-nhs

AdamSmith report on quangos www.adamsmith.org/blog/the-department-of-health-an-overview-of-its-quangos

2.1 billion has been allocated for spending on NHS IT, which always involves expensive consultancy contracts with firms like KPMG

I still shudder at the advertisement for a local '5 a day Manager' back in 2005 at a salary of £35k even then. Sole role, to tell the local population to eat 5 portions of fruit and vegetables a day.

NHS IT has also allocated funding for upgrading GP virtual and video facilities to enable remote consultations. Thank yo, Policy Exchange (and others), who are pushing for this kind of move.

Urmstongran

If we don't get back to how things were done in the 50s and 60s the NHS is doomed to going from bad to worse, not despite the the amount of money thrown at it but BECAUSE of the amount of money thrown at it so the NHS can continue wasting it.

If we went back to the way things were done in the 50s and 60s, I'd be dead and I would imagine quite a few GNers would be too. I guess the bright side for those who don't like funding th NHS, would be I would have died from a heart attack five years ago, so wouldn't need to be treated for cancer now.

Some European countries have a 20 euro charge for a doctor appointment
My point was without the NHS, a consultant, specialist nurse, they’re admin and pharmacy support, the occupational therapists, physios and more, all free to me, I couldn’t have co to yes to work,pay taxes, contribute to society. My consultant doesn’t operate in a vacuum, there’s a support team around her.
Medical care is expensive - most of us are happy to pay more than we currently do. Except I wouldn’t be sure this government woukd invest any increased contributions effectively

This thread has made me wonder how staff are actually categorised. Many medical staff also have a management role. Could this confuse the stats? Thinking back to my own experience pre retirement I worked in a clinical role in a department of 80+. Our service head was the only staff member not to work clinically. Her deputy, myself and four others had management responsibility for other staff for less than 10% of our working week. I’m wondering now how my post was counted - the Jon title and grade may automatically have ticked the management box when in fact this was a very minor part of my responsibility, I was a clinician. It never occurred to me to check, too late now.

BeEmerald

I’m sure GN are aware of copyright considering posts from Gransnet and Mumsnet are hoovered up to appear in tabloids. And users sign away their copyright to use the site

I think you have got hold of the wrong end of the stick BeEmerald - possibly deliberately?

I assure you that if anyone stole what I had written or designed, I would sue them if I was in a position to do so. I imagine the Telegraph has that sort of money.

We have lots of EU residents here so I'm sure that they will be able to add more than I can.

When I lived in France we had "private medical insurance" provided by our employer. It was in no way equivalent to the kind of medical insurance offered here by BUPA and the like. It was the way that the system was funded, not one health system for the people with money and another for the people who didn't.

Iam64

I tried to buy private health cover aged 42 when I moved into the private/charity sector so losing my local authority terms and conditions. Because I’d a diagnosis of inflammatory arthritis, no one would insure me. Luckily I remained well snd later a change in employment had me secure again
The treatment fir RA is expensive but I worked full time to 62 and 11 years on I’m still
Mobile and have no care needs. Without the nhS I’d probably be severely disabled. Fund it properly - other European countries do

Some European Countries have a requirement for you to have a top up health insurance policy.

I tried to buy private health cover aged 42 when I moved into the private/charity sector so losing my local authority terms and conditions. Because I’d a diagnosis of inflammatory arthritis, no one would insure me. Luckily I remained well snd later a change in employment had me secure again
The treatment fir RA is expensive but I worked full time to 62 and 11 years on I’m still
Mobile and have no care needs. Without the nhS I’d probably be severely disabled. Fund it properly - other European countries do