Our bloated NHS - it’s beyond ridiculous now.

No, I'm not, but my sister was quite a senior manager (former nurse who moved into management) and I have spent many hours listening to what she had to say.

Well, I'm presuming she didnt emigrate and take her skills with her.
☹

Hopefully, the final report won't be politically doctored

I wouldn't put it past him.

Callistemon21

growstuff

Callistemon21

. She was responsible for running her ward, not admitting patients.
Well, according to her, she'd done just that for 20 years.

I expect she thought she was very important, but hospitals have had bed managers for years, so it's doubtful.

I expect she thought she was very important
And, if so, she was right.

You seem to have extensive knowledge of the NHS and how it works, growstuff
Are you an NHS manager - if so, it's nothing personal, honestly.

I think we all want the same thing - enough funding for an efficient NHS with motivated staff and medical professionals who are not driven to the point of exhaustion.

No, I'm not, but my sister was quite a senior manager (former nurse who moved into management) and I have spent many hours listening to what she had to say.

Callistemon21

^but it's evident that some people really don't understand what managers do^.

It would be difficult not to know, however, none of the family works as a NHS manager although we do have a number of healthcare professionals with varying levels of frustration at some of the decision-making.

I do know a bit about managers ..... ?

I'm not saying the NHS is overburdened with management as I haven't worked for the NHS for over 50 years (it was quite different then) but the whole structure needs serious investigation and not by politicians.

And that's what's happening with the Messenger review. Hopefully, the final report won't be politically doctored. It does seem from the leaks that it doesn't say what some people on here seem to think it should.

growstuff

Callistemon21

. She was responsible for running her ward, not admitting patients.
Well, according to her, she'd done just that for 20 years.

I expect she thought she was very important, but hospitals have had bed managers for years, so it's doubtful.

I expect she thought she was very important
And, if so, she was right.

You seem to have extensive knowledge of the NHS and how it works, growstuff
Are you an NHS manager - if so, it's nothing personal, honestly.

I think we all want the same thing - enough funding for an efficient NHS with motivated staff and medical professionals who are not driven to the point of exhaustion.

but it's evident that some people really don't understand what managers do.

It would be difficult not to know, however, none of the family works as a NHS manager although we do have a number of healthcare professionals with varying levels of frustration at some of the decision-making.

I do know a bit about managers ..... ?

I'm not saying the NHS is overburdened with management as I haven't worked for the NHS for over 50 years (it was quite different then) but the whole structure needs serious investigation and not by politicians.

kittylester

volver was also self employed.

And, he didn't have to fit into the organisation - he was the only person with his speciality. But, it required 4 managers to keep an eye on him.

You must be able to see that is laughable.

No kittylester, I really don't agree.

How can you say that he didn't have to fit into the organisation? If somebody works in an organisation, they have to fit into it. They have a responsibility and a role in that organisation. I don't mean they have to keep quiet and "fit in" I mean they have to know what was expected of them and they have to let their manager know that they are delivering what is expected.

When I had the online marketing person in my team I didn't "keep an eye on them". We worked out what we needed in the way of online marketing and they got on with delivering it.

So we're left with a couple of options; either all 4 managers were so underused that they followed your DH around all day "keeping an eye on him", or they were so bad as managers that none of them could manage for toffee. Or, your DH didn't like being told certain things were expected of him and decided to leave.

My DH couldn't work for anybody, he's unmanageable, as I have often told him. But if you work in the NHS, you can expect to be managed.

Callistemon21

. She was responsible for running her ward, not admitting patients.
Well, according to her, she'd done just that for 20 years.

I expect she thought she was very important, but hospitals have had bed managers for years, so it's doubtful.

kittylester

volver was also self employed.

And, he didn't have to fit into the organisation - he was the only person with his speciality. But, it required 4 managers to keep an eye on him.

You must be able to see that is laughable.

No, it's not laughable, especially as his work was so niche. Who knew what he was up to, without telling anybody? (Not suggesting he was, but he could have been.)

. She was responsible for running her ward, not admitting patients.
Well, according to her, she'd done just that for 20 years.

Callistemon21

volver

The HR Partner where I used to work asked the factory floor what they thought she did, what her job was. The answer?

"Organise the Christmas party and the summer barbeque and buy fruit for the canteen."

Serious. I have not made this up.

That's just silly.

Of course organisations need HR managers.

It's an anecdote, but it's evident that some people really don't understand what managers do.

volver was also self employed.

And, he didn't have to fit into the organisation - he was the only person with his speciality. But, it required 4 managers to keep an eye on him.

You must be able to see that is laughable.

But not to manage people who know what they are doing, apparently.

Callistemon21

^But the immediate chorus of "too many managers, some of them just 21, I know what I'm doing" just betrays how little people really do know about running organisations^

So you're saying a senior nurse with 20 years experience of running surgical wards is wrong to think she managed perfectly well for years and now needs a bed manager to run her ward?

They weren't my words, they were those of an experienced professional.

But it's not just her ward! Managing bed vacancies is beyond her responsibility. Her ward needs to be part of a bigger picture. She was responsible for running her ward, not admitting patients.

volver

The HR Partner where I used to work asked the factory floor what they thought she did, what her job was. The answer?

"Organise the Christmas party and the summer barbeque and buy fruit for the canteen."

Serious. I have not made this up.

That's just silly.

Of course organisations need HR managers.

But the immediate chorus of "too many managers, some of them just 21, I know what I'm doing" just betrays how little people really do know about running organisations

So you're saying a senior nurse with 20 years experience of running surgical wards is wrong to think she managed perfectly well for years and now needs a bed manager to run her ward?

They weren't my words, they were those of an experienced professional.

The HR Partner where I used to work asked the factory floor what they thought she did, what her job was. The answer?

"Organise the Christmas party and the summer barbeque and buy fruit for the canteen."

Serious. I have not made this up.

volver

This is laughable.

The vested interest is usually that they want to be organisation to be successful.

Maybe there are too many managers in parts of the NHS, I don't know. But the immediate chorus of "too many managers, some of them just 21, I know what I'm doing" just betrays how little people really do know about running organisations.

Yes, that strikes a chord. My daughter is a 30 year old HR Manager, currently working in the private sector, but she's worked in local government and the civil service. She's as hard as old nails, which is just as well because she faces this kind of criticism all the time when she wants to implement change or requires people to be accountable for what they do.

GrannyGravy13

What a shame that the majority on here are retired, no doubt that could sort out the NHS in a shake ????

They need a posse of Gransnetters!

"We need more managers to improve efficiency!!"

"We need to sack layers of management and employ more medical staff to improve efficiency!!"

Callistemon21

growstuff

But I did understand it. You thought wrongly on this occasion.

Managerial roles can always be justified by some, usually those with a vested interest.

I no longer have a vested interest, but I do have a keen interest in how management works (or fails).

GrannyGravy13

What a shame that the majority on here are retired, no doubt that could sort out the NHS in a shake ????

I'd give it a go.

This is laughable.

The vested interest is usually that they want to be organisation to be successful.

Maybe there are too many managers in parts of the NHS, I don't know. But the immediate chorus of "too many managers, some of them just 21, I know what I'm doing" just betrays how little people really do know about running organisations.

kittylester

Dead right calistemon!

A bit like the sister in your anecdote.

It doesn't seem to fit the rhetoric does it?

I don't understand what you mean. If every ward sister acted independently outside her remit, there would be chaos.

Callistemon I'm sorry you had to wait in a storeroom for two hours, but that ward sister didn't know (because it wasn't her responsibility) whether the spare bed in her ward was needed more urgently by somebody who was at that moment in A&E. Unfortunately, people who always seems to think they know best, but in reality don't have an overview, cause systems to fail.

Dead right calistemon!

A bit like the sister in your anecdote.

It doesn't seem to fit the rhetoric does it?