That Sue Gray Report/Johnson meeting

Are you watching Panorama?

Re Sadiq Khan & the MET police. I can't imagine "partygate" is the reason why Londoners have lost faith in the police. Maybe it's because of their apparent failure to stop violent knife crime in its tracks. Rainbow helmets, take the knee, ensuring anyone stuck to a road is fed and watered. Anything but doing their job and protecting the general public.

Well, he got some things right. For instance, Starmer would have locked us down for longer (thereby suppressing the economy more). Libertarian Boris unlocked us in England so much earlier than other countries. Well done him!

Rameses

Urmstongran

Boz

On the basis that all in high Gov. are Brexiteers, it is in their interest to back BJ; their jobs depend on his success. Change of leader probably means change of policies on Brexit and a new cabinet with (heaven forfend) Remainers.

This scenario is also feared by arch-brexiteers on here.

Quite true Boz.

And I think the Tory backbenchers who want Boris replaced are thinking of their own jobs. They fear that with Boris leading, the Tories will get slaughtered at the next GE and they’ll be out on their ear.

I hope somehow Lord David Frost can become an MP and then the Tory party leader. He has true conservative values with a small “c” and would see that Brexit gets delivered properly instead of the dog’s dinner we have now.

None of this current crop of Tories, including Frost (MP or not), are Conservatives in the traditional sense.

They are a far right cabal masquerading as Conservatives and they have a different agenda. It is a Coup d'état and incredibly dangerous for democracy and the UK.

Johnson is no more than a front-man. He has no honour and no integrity and is too dim-witted and easily manipulated to realise that he is being used for nefarious reasons.

By and large, the bulk of the British (mainly English) voters are too disinterested in politics to care.

Well this is the price you pay for voting in Johnson to get Brexit done; I suspect the day-to-day boredom of being PM doesn't really suit him; no gravitas or eye for detail and certainly no enforcer of office discipline. Brexit has landed us with a most unsuitable PM in my memory.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0c8p2jb

From Twitter

Johnson is no more than a front-man. He has no honour and no integrity and is too dim-witted and easily manipulated to realise that he is being used for nefarious reasons.

Do you think he really cares about any 'nefarious reasons' so long as he stays in Downing Street? A lot of the nefarious stuff being legislated for is being done in the interests of keeping the tories in power; voter suppression, clampdown on demonstrations, curbs on judicial action, increased Executive power. All designed to keep the party of government in power and completely sideline parliamentary sovereignty and the populace's freedom of expression. None of it bothers him so long as he retains power.

I don't think he's dimwitted, I think he's well aware of what is going on and how to work it to his advantage.

Urmstongran

Boz

On the basis that all in high Gov. are Brexiteers, it is in their interest to back BJ; their jobs depend on his success. Change of leader probably means change of policies on Brexit and a new cabinet with (heaven forfend) Remainers.

This scenario is also feared by arch-brexiteers on here.

Quite true Boz.

And I think the Tory backbenchers who want Boris replaced are thinking of their own jobs. They fear that with Boris leading, the Tories will get slaughtered at the next GE and they’ll be out on their ear.

I hope somehow Lord David Frost can become an MP and then the Tory party leader. He has true conservative values with a small “c” and would see that Brexit gets delivered properly instead of the dog’s dinner we have now.

None of this current crop of Tories, including Frost (MP or not), are Conservatives in the traditional sense.

They are a far right cabal masquerading as Conservatives and they have a different agenda. It is a Coup d'état and incredibly dangerous for democracy and the UK.

Johnson is no more than a front-man. He has no honour and no integrity and is too dim-witted and easily manipulated to realise that he is being used for nefarious reasons.

By and large, the bulk of the British (mainly English) voters are too disinterested in politics to care.

Conservative values with a small ‘c’ are being totally eroded by this government, mainly instigated by it’s leader. What I don’t understand is why Conservative voters who vote Tory for those values are quite happy for this to happen. Ditto Conservative MP’s. The ones that have either left the party or been pushed out of the party are quite vocal about it. And those MP’s that are still in parliament but totally opposed to what Johnson is doing to their party and this country seem helpless when it comes to removing him from office. Even before he became PM there were Conservative MP’s who were quite open about refusing to serve under him. Even as a lifelong Labour voter I’d still feel safe living in a country led by someone like Ken Clarke or Dominic Grieve but at this moment in time I’m terrified by what I see happening.

He has true conservative values with a small “c”

Genuine questions: what are those values these days? How has Frost evidenced that he has them?

MayBee70

The brexit that we’re getting is the brexit that us remainers said we would get. It’s nothing to do with who’s is charge of running it. It was unworkable from the start.

Agreed MayBee70. I mentioned on another thread that Roger Daltrey was having a hissy fit about how this wasn't the Brexit he voted for. But the "Remainers" explained what leaving the EU meant and lo and behold, it has come to pass.

This is the Brexit they voted for, many just didn't think it through.

I actually think its the Brexiters who are stuck on the division between Brexiter and Remainer. Most Remainers I know realise that this is what we've got now, and we have to make the best of it. It doesn't make me stop hoping we go back to the EU one day, but right now, we're on our own. But I think it suits the Brexiter government to still blame the Remainers for sabotaging everything and if that doesn't work, blame the EU for being vindictive. It's never their fault.

The brexit that we’re getting is the brexit that us remainers said we would get. It’s nothing to do with who’s is charge of running it. It was unworkable from the start.

..and Frost in 2016:

“About 40% of what we export goes to Europe. If we leave the European Union then we are going to see administrative barriers brought up. If there is a Brexit we will lose access to the European Union Free Trade Agreements, that is clear.

“If the UK then will need to renegotiate its own agreements, clearly that is going to take time. Our interest is to be part of the biggest possible market with the fewest possible barriers.

“The European single market gives us that. The European free trade agreements gives us that. Why would we want to depart from that?”

I do. Most sincerely.
For reasons I won’t go into on this thread. ?

Have you read Frost’s keynote speech of 27 April 2022?

I was the Government’s Brexit negotiator in 2019 when the current Protocol was agreed, again in 2020 when it, and the UK Internal Market Bill, were part of the backdrop to our trade negotiations; and in 2021 I was the responsible Minister as the Protocol settlement – much earlier than expected, and in ways we did not predict – started to come apart.

…. paragraphs of blameshifting for a protocol he negotiated and he agreed to … then

So be it. We are where we are. We have to face the fact that we are in a very serious situation. It is pretty clear, and serious commentators agree, that the Belfast Good Friday Agreement is on life support. It is difficult to see the results of next week’s elections doing much to help.

His is a gross failure. Do not wish for this man to be given leadership.

Boz

On the basis that all in high Gov. are Brexiteers, it is in their interest to back BJ; their jobs depend on his success. Change of leader probably means change of policies on Brexit and a new cabinet with (heaven forfend) Remainers.

This scenario is also feared by arch-brexiteers on here.

Quite true Boz.

And I think the Tory backbenchers who want Boris replaced are thinking of their own jobs. They fear that with Boris leading, the Tories will get slaughtered at the next GE and they’ll be out on their ear.

I hope somehow Lord David Frost can become an MP and then the Tory party leader. He has true conservative values with a small “c” and would see that Brexit gets delivered properly instead of the dog’s dinner we have now.

Imagine you are a civil servant who was at these events/parties, and you’ve been served with a number of fines. You’ve had a notice put on your desk by Smogg, you know that the civil servants will be the scapegoat so you will likely lose your job. You’ve got nothing to lose by making sure the public know the truth, have you? I’m expecting more revelations any time soon.

Parsley3

^And he has been proven innocent.^

No, he was proved to be guilty of breaking the law and he was fined. Are we being brainwashed into believing that black is white now? He is not the best of all possible Prime Ministers. He is actually a liar who is being kept in power by sycophants who have their own self serving reasons for continuing to deny his law breaking. It is sickening and dangerous. Hell mend the Great British Public if we accept this disgraceful state of affairs.

So it’s ok to have a PM running the country who lies to Parliament? Why should we ignore that and move on?

On the basis that all in high Gov. are Brexiteers, it is in their interest to back BJ; their jobs depend on his success. Change of leader probably means change of policies on Brexit and a new cabinet with (heaven forfend) Remainers.

This scenario is also feared by arch-brexiteers on here.

Even if BJ was only there for ten minutes he could see that a party was going on and should have sent them all home. As the PM it was his duty to abide by the rules and ensure all his staff did too.

I am beginning to think that maybe the red box might have been photoshopped in.
Nothing about this farce would surprise me anymore

Shropshirelass

I am rather fed up with it now, just publish the report and get on with things. We obeyed the rules and lost elderly relatives due to COVID but what happened has happened, let’s just move on, harping on over the past is no good for anyone, it doesn’t change anything.

Its does change everything though.

We have a liar for PM who has demonstrated that either he doesn't care about the people of this country, or he doesn't understand what "obeying the rules" means. And he's taking us for fools.

I want him gone, just like many others do. He demeans the position of Prime Minister.

That's what we want to change, I should think.

Shropshirelass

I am rather fed up with it now, just publish the report and get on with things. We obeyed the rules and lost elderly relatives due to COVID but what happened has happened, let’s just move on, harping on over the past is no good for anyone, it doesn’t change anything.

So you are prepared to move on from a prime minister who broke the ministerial code.

Don’t you think rules are there for a purpose?

I am rather fed up with it now, just publish the report and get on with things. We obeyed the rules and lost elderly relatives due to COVID but what happened has happened, let’s just move on, harping on over the past is no good for anyone, it doesn’t change anything.

And he has been proven innocent.

No, he was proved to be guilty of breaking the law and he was fined. Are we being brainwashed into believing that black is white now? He is not the best of all possible Prime Ministers. He is actually a liar who is being kept in power by sycophants who have their own self serving reasons for continuing to deny his law breaking. It is sickening and dangerous. Hell mend the Great British Public if we accept this disgraceful state of affairs.