Scottish survey on gender recognition bill update

How anyone can square this proposed change in law with the rights of others such as this teenage girl is beyond me. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61523291

Women in Scotland are being thrown under the bus by a patriarchal movement that wants all the power and which includes some women who have failed to understand the issue. Before anyone asks, yes, I’ve been protesting about this for years now, since it first hit the news.

Sorry, volver, but this time I disagree with you. I think we need all the help and support we can get, and don't feel patronised at all by those who feel sorry for us! It is in their interest as well as ours that this is sat on as firmly as possible. People from furth of Scotland were invited to take part in the consultation too. Surely we would be supporting them if this was happening the other way round, and not at all in a patronising way.

Careful Chewbacca you don't want to come across as patronising!!

Don't give a toss about that Smileless; this subject is far too important and imperative to be derailed by silliness like that.

Can they also remember that the whole of the UK is observing what legislation is passed in Scotland because it will soon be mooted in the rest of the country - and the whole world. There is more gender recognition propaganda coming from south of the border than there is from Scottish sources, it is just that Holyrood has been more pro-active in getting legislation onto the table than Westminster. They could also - if they are not too thirled to the heavy-duty lobbying of Stonewall and others - be pro-active in applying good old common sense.

This survey shows that grass-roots opinion is not the same as official policy. Our representatives in Parliament - Westminster or Holyrood - are supposed to take note of their constituents views and vote for what is right for ALL of them. Women are half those constituents.

Careful Chewbacca you don't want to come across as patronising!!

Another here feeling very sorry for women in Scotland, especially the rape and domestic violence victims who are bearing the brunt of this nonsense. Problem is; Scotland's apparently urgent desperation to throw their women's safety, rights and very existence under a bus, is travelling south and is coming to a changing room, hospital bed, prison, toilet cubicle and domestic violence refuge near you.

Go ahead volver. The women I know appreciate the support that they receive from their 'sisters' rather than resent it and accuse those who show their support as patronising.

Smileless2012

I do feel sorry for women who live in Scotland if this legislation goes through volver and because of that, I am glad that I don't live there. This is how I feel and there's nothing patronising about it.

My maternal GM was Irish and would tell us to 'wheesht' when she wanted us to be quiet.

Yes there is.

Feel sorry for us? Who do you think you are? We'll fight our own battles thanks.

I do feel sorry for women who live in Scotland if this legislation goes through volver and because of that, I am glad that I don't live there. This is how I feel and there's nothing patronising about it.

My maternal GM was Irish and would tell us to 'wheesht' when she wanted us to be quiet.

Doodledog

*. . . my own straw poll amongst relatives and friends indicated that they were mostly not interested, one way or the other, because the issue had never affected their lives.*
That doesn't surprise me, Granny23. There has been a sudden outbreak of people wanting to 'change sex' (although this is impossible) after millennia when this never happened. The fact that most of the 'transpeople' don't have medical intervention shows that this is not because science hadn't developed to the point where this became possible until recently - it is because the TRAs (trans rights activists) have pushed the agenda in such a way that men can gain access to women's spaces, compete against us in sport, skew research statistics and nullify sex-based concessions for women, and accuse anyone who pushes back against this of transphobia and discrimination.

The whole basis of their claim is that 'gender norms' - the behaviours that are deemed to be typically 'male' or 'female' - are, in fact, determined by people's biology, rather than by society. That if a child prefers playing with dumper trucks and playing football they must 'be' a boy, and if they play with Barbies they must be a girl. Anyone who likes both football and ballet can't just accept that, but has to be 'non-binary'. Who actually lives life only doing things that someone else has decided are 'male' or 'female' actions? Virtually nobody, IME, but TRAs are so obsessed with 'gender norms' that they can't accept this, and instead claim that men can 'just know' that they are women, or women men, and those who aren't extreme stereotypes must be non-binary.

Most older people won't have experience of this, unless their grandchildren have been caught up in it, or they work in a 'captured' environment, such as a university or local government, where Stonewall rules are rigidly applied.

Thank you - this has helped me think more clearly. I agree.

Oh, OK, I've changed my mind.

"Wheesht" wasn't a little known word before 2018, whatever the Telegraph tells you.

And can posters please remember that saying they are sorry for women in Scotland and that you're glad you don't live there is patronising in the extreme?

How can this legislation be passed while so many intelligent arguments against have been put forward? .

I feel so sorry for women who live in Scotland and am thankful that I don't.

Germanshepherdsmum

How terrible for them. I have no experience on which to draw but feel that for some young people it’s a phase - ‘everyone else is doing it’ - that may pass in time, when they have the maturity to know who they really are.

I feel the same, and I suspect that for some younger people at least, it may well be a case of enjoying expressing opinions that they know will be at odds with whatever their parents and much of an older generation, think or believe.

Not uncommon IMO - as a teen of the 60s I can remember doing similar.

“ ... In particular, a rallying cry has emerged: “Women won’t wheesht” – which means women won’t be silenced. Before 2018, “wheesht” was a little known word, but one mother, concerned about her disabled daughter who needs sex-based care and it is feared will be unable to request a female nurse or doctor, turned the phrase into a hashtag that is now used by the feminist movement in Spain, France and Germany, too.

The woman, a SNP supporter, who tweets using the name @dis_critic and has asked to remain anonymous for the sake of her daughter, says she was “surprised by the response” but believes it is testament to the strength of feeling about the issues. “We feel robbed of something and we feel that we haven’t been listened to,” she says.

“I am now female first and Scottish after that. If people are fighting for female sex-based rights and single sex services then I am happy to join their discussion, no matter what party they are from.”

That was in reply to Aveline. I agree Doodledog.

How terrible for them. I have no experience on which to draw but feel that for some young people it’s a phase - ‘everyone else is doing it’ - that may pass in time, when they have the maturity to know who they really are.

. . . my own straw poll amongst relatives and friends indicated that they were mostly not interested, one way or the other, because the issue had never affected their lives.
That doesn't surprise me, Granny23. There has been a sudden outbreak of people wanting to 'change sex' (although this is impossible) after millennia when this never happened. The fact that most of the 'transpeople' don't have medical intervention shows that this is not because science hadn't developed to the point where this became possible until recently - it is because the TRAs (trans rights activists) have pushed the agenda in such a way that men can gain access to women's spaces, compete against us in sport, skew research statistics and nullify sex-based concessions for women, and accuse anyone who pushes back against this of transphobia and discrimination.

The whole basis of their claim is that 'gender norms' - the behaviours that are deemed to be typically 'male' or 'female' - are, in fact, determined by people's biology, rather than by society. That if a child prefers playing with dumper trucks and playing football they must 'be' a boy, and if they play with Barbies they must be a girl. Anyone who likes both football and ballet can't just accept that, but has to be 'non-binary'. Who actually lives life only doing things that someone else has decided are 'male' or 'female' actions? Virtually nobody, IME, but TRAs are so obsessed with 'gender norms' that they can't accept this, and instead claim that men can 'just know' that they are women, or women men, and those who aren't extreme stereotypes must be non-binary.

Most older people won't have experience of this, unless their grandchildren have been caught up in it, or they work in a 'captured' environment, such as a university or local government, where Stonewall rules are rigidly applied.

In my career I met several people who had rushed into transition and bitterly regretted it. Very sad situation. One had even had the surgery and was distraught that they couldn't transit back. Tragic.

Yes I’ve been on the wrong side of her a few times too, but her absence worries me.

Agree Germanshepherdsmum we often disagreed, but I do hope she is OK.

Don’t want to derail the thread but I do worry about Trisher. This is the sort of thing about which she would have strong views but she’s been absent for quite a while.

Aveline

I note that 30% of respondents were from outside Scotland. GRA activists?

Some of them were Gransnet posters - so probably reflected the majority GN opinion.

I would just like to comment that for the first time in GN history, I will not be commenting on a thread about Scotland.

Crikey were women organising on Facebook. How shocking.

Perhaps they should become interested because this may well affect the lives of those who are women.