19 children and two adults murdered in school shooting in Texas

torge

Volver may I point out King George III was forced out of the U.S. and in the War of 1812, it was done again.

I hope you don't have a situation that you have to defend yourself in your own home. No one should be put in that position. But it is my understanding that in Britain, you would be the one prosecuted if you harm/kill the intruder in self-defense.

Don't patronise me lady.

Bad people exist in all countries, even yours.

Yes indeed. And we don't allow them to buy assault rifles to kill children with, when they are just 18 years old. We did once. We acted. Unlike the NRA. Guess what - no more school shootings.

Volver may I point out King George III was forced out of the U.S. and in the War of 1812, it was done again.

I hope you don't have a situation that you have to defend yourself in your own home. No one should be put in that position. But it is my understanding that in Britain, you would be the one prosecuted if you harm/kill the intruder in self-defense.

For posters who say it is common sense - what is common sense for you it is bananas for others

Torge's post illuatrates the dichotomy of gun ownership in the US

Silvergirl there is no need for name calling. I see the world as it really is. Bad people exist in all countries, even yours. I am not worried or scared about going to any place to shop, fill up my car, go to my college campus or any movie/theater/restaurant to enjoy myself.

Musicgirl a burglary is a home invasion. It just means you are at home when the criminal breaks into your house. It is a term someone made up to muddy the waters.

Gun owners have children/family members & will protect them. They believe anti-gun owner's children/family members have the right to the same protection. If anti-gun people won't protect their children, the legal gun owners will step forward & put their life on the line to do so when the Shit Hits the Fan. Don't poo-poo this idea

I will indeed disagree with that idea - it's a strawman argument.

If guns, including semi-automatics, were not so easily available from supermarkets, then there would not be such a widespread need for people to protect their families, teachers to protect their pupils.

It's past the stage when you seek to change peoples entrenched views. Laws must be changed It should not be party political either. Just right v might.
Couldn't some of those billionnaires we read about be asked/coerced into influencing the vote?

As Silvergirl says - it is common sense.

Torge All your long winded right wing arguments are extremely feeble. They seem to be based around total paranoia.

At its simplest, common sense tells you that the easier the access to weapons, the more killing there will be. It is not complicated.

America. Why aren’t you protecting your children?

I have a 10 year old grandchild in elementary school in the USA. These shootings terrify me, as well as breaking my heart at the thought of the innocent victims. I hate to think that she is in a country where it is necessary for schoolchildren to practice what to do if there's a gunman in the school. However, I am also worried about the rest of the family, as gun crime isn't confined to schools. Anyone can become a victim just by being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

My family live in what is supposed to be one of the safest cities in the USA. However, my elder granddaughter has been at the mall when it had to be evacuated because there was an active shooter there. My daughter has driven downtown to give one of her sons a lift home, only to find she couldn't get near his workplace because the roads were closed - again, because of a gunman. She just had to hope that his workplace had locked down, which it had. On another occasion, two people were shot dead in the park near my daughter's house. At the time of the BLM marches and counter-marches, when the situation was so volatile, they used to lie awake and listen to the sound of gunfire.

My daughter says that it's pointless to talk about guns to Americans who support gun ownership. (Obviously there are many who don't.) She says you are just banging your head against a brick wall.

Torge, unfortunately your view is exactly what we have come to expect from far too many of your fellow countrymen and women. I know an American lady who has lived here for over fifty years and expresses similar views. I expect the familiar response that there are over 300 million people who live in the USA and don't all think alike. We know. There are around 66 million people living in the UK and strangely enough we don't all think alike either. However, you will see that almost all of us are in one mind on this topic. We will be asked how we would defend ourselves in the case of a home invasion. We have burglaries rather than home invasions - not that we have many of these nowadays. Even our criminals are generally unarmed these days as they know that they will get a much longer prison sentence if they are caught in possession of a gun than would otherwise be the case. You will then point to knife crimes and, yes, this is also a dreadful crime but at least a knife can only injure/kill one person at a time whereas automatic rifles can murder numerous people at the same time. Also, knife crime tends to be part of gang culture. Even in this respect, the US knife murder statistics are far higher than those in the UK. The USA is the most dangerous country in the Western world and until the gun laws are revised, this will continue to be the case. A shame because it is a lovely country with lots of great people in it.

Lucca ?

Well said, Monica
The only time DH or I have been threatened by an official threatening to draw a gun was going through American Customs and Border Control at an airport.
I've travelled to a few places where police etc are armed and DH has travelled to far more but the USA seemed to be the most threatening country of all that I visited.

So true Lucca and M0nica
But there are none so blind as cannae see.

torge
Check this article out www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/05/25/grim-reality-us-gun-crime-firearms-kill-children-car-crashes/ . The British newspaper this came from is one of the right-wing newspapers in the UK. It gives chapter and verse.

Main cause of children dying in the USA? 1) Killed by someone using a gun 2) Road accidents.

Main cause of children dying in the UK 1) Cancer(130 deaths in 2018), 2) Accidents of all kinds. Being shot is not listed in the 8 leading causes for death. Only 7 children were killed by gun fire www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/articles/offencesinvolvingtheuseoffirearms/yearendingmarch2019

As for being protected by armed guards. In my normal life I can go days, weeks, months, without seeing anyone, including law enforcement officers, with a gun. Even when we went to France recently, we saw armed officers in the port on the French side, but only in the distance. There were no armed security officers on the boat and we saw none in the shops or patrolling the streets.

My grandchildren walk too and from school without any fear of being killed. It never ever occurs to them that someone could burst into the classroom and kill them. They are not taught, and do not practice, what to do if a gunman breaks into their school.

Perhaps you should stop reading all those lurid rightwing sources you prefer and actually come and visit, not just the UK, but Europe and see how free we are to walk the streets, without any fear that any of us, especially our children, will be killed in a massacre. We do not even have shoot outs between drug dealers on school premises.

Brilliant post Lucca

..

I think I feel free because I was never ever worried about my children being shot at school.

I've got a large kitchen knife with a wicked point. Does that mean I'm free?

I've never had to "self defense" myself in my own home, either. Those redcoats George III sent when all those clever men were writing the Constitution in the 18th century must have passed me by.

torge sadly you are so blinded by your extreme views that you are unable to see that if the 18 year old didn’t have easy access to an array of guns and ammunition those innocent little children and their teachers would still be alive.

torge

My condolences goes out to all of the families who have lost children & adults in Uvalde, Texas. This also extends to the families who have lost loved ones in Liberal-run cities that have allowed criminals & the mentally ill to run at large with their blessings.

No gun owner condones the actions of criminals/mentally ill individuals who have been allowed to freely roam amongst law abiding citizens. It's the lack of prosecution & having a death penalty as a deterrent that has let the thugs run amok. It's the lack of locking up violent mentally ill people in the proper facilities that allow them to act on disgusting thoughts. They know there's no punishment for their criminal activity, thus no determent. (P.S. If you murder, you have forfeited your right to live. Thus, a valid reason for the death penalty.)

Gun owners have children/family members & will protect them. They believe anti-gun owner's children/family members have the right to the same protection. If anti-gun people won't protect their children, the legal gun owners will step forward & put their life on the line to do so when the Shit Hits the Fan. Don't poo-poo this idea. It's those who want to ban guns that are the ones who scream the loudest for the police come & save them. The truth is, the police aren't there for their personal protection, they're there for the investigation AFTER THE FACT. IT IS YOUR JOB TO PROTECT YOURSELF & YOUR FAMILY. And guess what? That calls for weapons folks.

Remember, all of your elected government officials that tell you that you have no right to self-defense in the U.K. are protected by guess what...armed security...with guns!

You can't stop evil people doing evil things. Look at your European history. At no time has any type of deadly weapon killed people by itself. It has taken a human to use that inanimate object be it chair, cast iron skillet, ball bat, stone, brick or fence post. I could go on and on.

Gun owners believe in the rule of law. However, American left-wing politicians favor their personal power over the lives being taken by criminals and/or mentally disturbed by not prosecuting law breakers or locking the mentally ill in facilities.

In America, we have a Constitution that was written by very brilliant men (yes, men) who had incredible foresight. It is very simple & clear cut what they meant. We in America are not SUBJECTS, we are CITIZENS. We aren't a DEMOCRACY, but a REPUBLIC. And I as a female I have the same rights as the men in this country. The reversal of Roe V. Wade isn't taking away any rights of women no matter what you think. Having the Second Amendment isn't causing anyone to murder. It allows us to live freely as God meant human beings to live so no one can take away our God given rights.

I've read the some of the comments & obviously some have seen too many Hollywood movies & read/watched the liberal talking heads of CNN-type news outlets that won't let a tragedy go to waste in order to forward their radical views. Also, the stats are skewed on what constitutes "school shootings", i.e., drug dealers shooting each other on school property after hours is a "school shooting", just as an adult suicide on school property is a "school shooting" with no kids around, etc.

Condemning gun owners, organizations & weapons stating they caused this tragedy is ludicrous. How about putting the blame on where it belongs, the one that committed it! And how about putting it on the prosecutors that won't prosecute violent criminals & let them back out on the street to kill again.

Do you really have to have rounded kitchen knives because your Masters have told you that you will stab one another if they have pointed tips? How do you feel about not having the right to self-defense in your own home?

Please take the time to read all of the founding documents of the United States, you may learn that YOU are the ones not free at all.

There were plenty of legal gun owners and armed police officers at this elementary school—- still took them over an hour to enter the room with the gunman. The multitude of guns did nothing to save lives- but the assault rifles in the hands of a just turned 18 year old took many. You are a prime example of why better gun laws are needed.

Words fail me.

My condolences goes out to all of the families who have lost children & adults in Uvalde, Texas. This also extends to the families who have lost loved ones in Liberal-run cities that have allowed criminals & the mentally ill to run at large with their blessings.

No gun owner condones the actions of criminals/mentally ill individuals who have been allowed to freely roam amongst law abiding citizens. It's the lack of prosecution & having a death penalty as a deterrent that has let the thugs run amok. It's the lack of locking up violent mentally ill people in the proper facilities that allow them to act on disgusting thoughts. They know there's no punishment for their criminal activity, thus no determent. (P.S. If you murder, you have forfeited your right to live. Thus, a valid reason for the death penalty.)

Gun owners have children/family members & will protect them. They believe anti-gun owner's children/family members have the right to the same protection. If anti-gun people won't protect their children, the legal gun owners will step forward & put their life on the line to do so when the Shit Hits the Fan. Don't poo-poo this idea. It's those who want to ban guns that are the ones who scream the loudest for the police come & save them. The truth is, the police aren't there for their personal protection, they're there for the investigation AFTER THE FACT. IT IS YOUR JOB TO PROTECT YOURSELF & YOUR FAMILY. And guess what? That calls for weapons folks.

Remember, all of your elected government officials that tell you that you have no right to self-defense in the U.K. are protected by guess what...armed security...with guns!

You can't stop evil people doing evil things. Look at your European history. At no time has any type of deadly weapon killed people by itself. It has taken a human to use that inanimate object be it chair, cast iron skillet, ball bat, stone, brick or fence post. I could go on and on.

Gun owners believe in the rule of law. However, American left-wing politicians favor their personal power over the lives being taken by criminals and/or mentally disturbed by not prosecuting law breakers or locking the mentally ill in facilities.

In America, we have a Constitution that was written by very brilliant men (yes, men) who had incredible foresight. It is very simple & clear cut what they meant. We in America are not SUBJECTS, we are CITIZENS. We aren't a DEMOCRACY, but a REPUBLIC. And I as a female I have the same rights as the men in this country. The reversal of Roe V. Wade isn't taking away any rights of women no matter what you think. Having the Second Amendment isn't causing anyone to murder. It allows us to live freely as God meant human beings to live so no one can take away our God given rights.

I've read the some of the comments & obviously some have seen too many Hollywood movies & read/watched the liberal talking heads of CNN-type news outlets that won't let a tragedy go to waste in order to forward their radical views. Also, the stats are skewed on what constitutes "school shootings", i.e., drug dealers shooting each other on school property after hours is a "school shooting", just as an adult suicide on school property is a "school shooting" with no kids around, etc.

Condemning gun owners, organizations & weapons stating they caused this tragedy is ludicrous. How about putting the blame on where it belongs, the one that committed it! And how about putting it on the prosecutors that won't prosecute violent criminals & let them back out on the street to kill again.

Do you really have to have rounded kitchen knives because your Masters have told you that you will stab one another if they have pointed tips? How do you feel about not having the right to self-defense in your own home?

Please take the time to read all of the founding documents of the United States, you may learn that YOU are the ones not free at all.

Hithere

This is more than a weapon issue

In several cases, the shooter displayed examples of intent in social media, friends, etc
In other cases, they were well known risky cases of mental health illness

It is also the lack of seeing the red flags and preventing a tragedy

You are are spot on Hithere. The shut down of mental health facilities are part of the problem. There are people who need serious help & being out on the street they can't get it.

The other part are people who don't want to "get involved" & won't speak out when they should.

England is a cup of tea.
France, a wheel of ripened brie.
Greece, a short, squat olive tree.
America is a gun.

Brazil is football on the sand.
Argentina, Maradona’s hand.
Germany, an oompah band.
America is a gun.

Holland is a wooden shoe.
Hungary, a goulash stew.
Australia, a kangaroo.
America is a gun.

Japan is a thermal spring.
Scotland is a highland fling.
Oh, better to be anything
than America as a gun.

- Brian Bilston

Not sure if this has been mentioned but the husband of one of the teachers has died of a heart attack. So terribly tragic.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-61569655