Working class? Don't think that Oxbridge is for you.

"the person who cleans the toilets in an Oxford Dons house could go on to have their own cleaning company."

Which is nice unless they had the capability and desire to be an Oxford Don but couldn't do that as the Social Mobility Czar thought it too big a step.

Casdon I agree, but I also know that it is possible to achieve both academically and financially without a degree from Oxbridge/red brick Uni.

JaneJudge

lots of well off people I know are annoyed that working class/state school pupils are getting places at redbrick/oxbridge universities when their privately educated relatives cannot get places and they seem to think people from state schools are getting some kind of advantage

I have come across this attitude. An acquaintance who is a solicitor was very vocal about her privately educated son being refused a place at Oxford because it had to be given ( and I quote) to an oik from a council estate.

One of the reasons that less working class children realise their potential is that they are often raised, as I was, in a world devoid of ambition where they are told success is for someone else. I believe she is perpetuating this in a world where we really could be hoping for better.

volver

Nope. Not getting it at all.

volver what are you not getting

GrannyGravy13

Glorianny it is all to do with jobs.

Academia versus wealth

I know academics who cannot be described as wealthy, I know millionaires who left school at 15.

Expectations today are totally different due to social media, some young want to be famous, some want to be rich, some want to learn and no doubt some want to be all three.

Time to move on from putting people in boxes whilst in education, further education can be entered at any age and with access courses no need for A levels.

It all boils down to academic snobbery.

We all know what you’re suggesting is never going to happen GrannyGravy13. Academic institutions will always be compared and valued based on their academic rigour. Oxbridge has been at the top of the UK pile for centuries. Every country has an equivalent system. You can call it academic snobbery if you wish but whatever you call it, it’s the way of the world.

Nope. Not getting it at all.

Social mobility does not rely on an Oxbridge/red brick degree.

People aren't getting this at all.

The person who is meant to be in charge of making sure there are as few barriers as possible to social mobility, is saying you should be happy with what you can get. And not expect to move above your station, just be happy you've got a job.

Perhaps all this chat about academic snobbery and vocational training is simply because people can't believe what Birbalsingh is saying. She's saying "don't get ideas above your station, peasants."

When the ruling party have spent over a decade systematically and deliberately increasing the divide between rich and poor it seems only unsurprising that the person they appoint as Chair of the Social Mobility Committee should be telling us that limited progress is desirable, normal and satisfactory.

This despite her day job being entirely about getting children from deprived backgrounds into Oxbridge.

Glorianny it is all to do with jobs.

Academia versus wealth

I know academics who cannot be described as wealthy, I know millionaires who left school at 15.

Expectations today are totally different due to social media, some young want to be famous, some want to be rich, some want to learn and no doubt some want to be all three.

Time to move on from putting people in boxes whilst in education, further education can be entered at any age and with access courses no need for A levels.

It all boils down to academic snobbery.

GrannyGravy13

All jobs are valuable to society, the person who cleans the toilets in an Oxford Dons house could go on to have their own cleaning company.

It is not necessary to have an Oxbridge or any other University degree to be successful financially or otherwise.

OF course all jobs are valuable. This isn't about jobs. It's about expectations. If you come from a family of long term unemployed be satisfied if you get a job and don't even think of going to Oxbridge.

That's crazy JaneJudge. How can you buy a brain (or a uni place) by sending a child to an independent school?

lots of well off people I know are annoyed that working class/state school pupils are getting places at redbrick/oxbridge universities when their privately educated relatives cannot get places and they seem to think people from state schools are getting some kind of advantage

My daughter attended a local comprehensive school. When she was doing her A levels, she, along with a small group of others, was selected to visit Cambridge with a view to perhaps applying there. She went on the visit and hated Cambridge! She didn’t want to be the ‘token’ state school student (this was in the late 80s) and felt that it wasn’t for her. She went to a northern red brick university where she went on to gain a science PhD and is currently a high flyer in the pharmaceutical industry. Not sure she would have flourished at Cambridge. I think, as a society, we need to stop putting Oxbridge on a pedestal. There are many, many excellent universities throughout the UK - let’s celebrate them.

All jobs are valuable to society, the person who cleans the toilets in an Oxford Dons house could go on to have their own cleaning company.

It is not necessary to have an Oxbridge or any other University degree to be successful financially or otherwise.

Yep.

She's redefining social mobility volver making it a term which actually means "knowing your place and celebrating it". Another way of saying it might be "Don't get above yourself". If you have a job that's enough for you. It's deeply unpleasant given that she is supposed to care about education.

It doesn't really have much to do with Oxbridge. Oxbridge is an exemplar. It's got to do with aspiration. Which our social mobility tsar is conveniently avoiding mentioning.

John Prescott sorted it years ago.
John, now Lord Prescott, announced that 'We're all middle class now'.

Problem solved.

Oxbridge takes in around 7,000 undergraduates each year.

It is not easy to find the number of KS4 and KS5 pupils who left all schools in the UK last year but it will be substantial.

Each one of these pupils deserves the best chance to succeed, whether it be a place at Oxbridge or paid employment.

Oxbridge isn’t necessarily the best choice for all highly paid careers.

I watched her speech online so you don't have to. It was hard, but I was brave. It's like watching to a sixth former debating, TBH.

Anyway, she thinks we should re-define social mobility as the process of enabling everyone to find and apply their talents in ways that they enjoy and gives them purpose, and for our wider society and economy.

Well OK, that's very nice, but that's not social mobility is it? And she's meant to be the social mobility tsar. She maybe needs to look at her job description again to remind herself what it is she's supposed to be doing.

NittWitt

Germany has a very good system of vocational training which the UK would do well to look at, in my view.

Could not agree more.

My twin sons both went to Oxford - engineering. Working class background, had no issues on their courses. That was 30 years ago when there didn't seem to be so much obsession with working/upper class student background.