Working class? Don't think that Oxbridge is for you.

We can’t claim to be working class, but my sons did go to a state comprehensive, and one went to Cambridge. He didn’t meet anyone else from a state school for over a month, and as for cutlery - well, I thought I had prepared him to cope with anything, but he said he was still somewhat baffled when faced with five knives. The ‘work from the outside inwards’ rule didn’t seem adequate. He did well, though, rowed for his college (he couldn’t row before he went), and the whole experience enriched his life in the long run. He has found that, like it or not, being a Cambridge graduate opens doors.

I like her. She of the ‘toughest school head’ according to a recent documentary I watched. There’s a huge waiting list to get into her school - a run down area. Discipline, boundaries and working hard to achieve good grades are what she promises in her school. Her staff think she is fantastic.

Reading what Ms Birbalsingh has actually said, it seems she exactly advocates that - if you can succeed you should be able to .... irrespective of background, but there should be no artificial access on identity politics.

She has then however further commented that those from more disadvantaged backgrounds should be able to go as far as they can, even if it's not the so-called elite positions in education or society - "a broader view of social mobility, for a wider range of people."
I see little to argue with in that.

Here she is.

Ms Birbalsingh is expert at creating a fuss on Twitter and social media, then playing the victim, telling everybody that what she really meant was something else entirely, and boasting about her weird little school that can't even get the quotations on the wall right.

I had a friend once who used to use the phrase "mad as a box of badgers".

I don’t read Twitter.
Maybe she is ‘mad as a box of badgers’. Her school is popular and she gets results. It’s very strict. No bullying is tolerated. Pupils feel safe and do well. That in itself is a rarity these days.

Has no-one here read the article?

Both Oxford and Cambridge have outreach ambassadors who go into state schools and push the message that their universities are for anybody who's capable, works hard and is passionate about their subject.

Birbalsingh is supposed to be the social mobility tsar - she's paid for it. How dare she tell anybody that they shouldn't be aiming for Oxbridge if that's what they want. I bet she wouldn't go into a private school and say the same thing.

What does "no artificial access on identity politics" mean?

She's the one playing the cultural war game!

Germanshepherdsmum

I’m suggesting that some disadvantaged students would be happier, and maybe perform better, elsewhere. Suicide rates amongst students don’t make for pleasant reading.

Why would they be happier?

This kind of stuff is just so patronising. The kind of young people who go to Oxford and Cambridge are exceptional and should never be told it's not for them.

Germanshepherdsmum

Did they come from disadvantaged backgrounds though, visgirl? That’s the point, and having a state education doesn’t mean you’re disadvantaged. Oxbridge bend over backwards to take students from state schools nowadays. But imagine coming from a background where people had no table to eat at and being plunged into dining in hall, with more cutlery to cope with than you’ve ever seen.

Those kind of skills can be taught. It wouldn't be beyond anybody with the brains to get into Oxford or Cambridge.

My partner came from a very ordinary background and went to a state school. He was taught table manners, but I know where he lived and it most certainly wasn't luxurious. He went to Oxford and then to Cambridge to do his PhD, where he was a lecturer before becoming a professor at a Russell Group uni.

This was in the 1970s, when there weren't many state school pupils. His first term was grim because the public school boys took the pee out of him, but he soon learnt - being brighter than many of them must have helped! It opened his eyes to a world he would never have known, as did my own university experience. How dare anybody deny bright students that opportunity!

"Ms Birbalsingh will argue that social mobility is not getting worse and that the picture is more "complex""

In a nutshell.

But of course there follows a high degree of apparently deliberate misunderstanding on GN.

Hey ho ?

Urmstongran

I don’t read Twitter.
Maybe she is ‘mad as a box of badgers’. Her school is popular and she gets results. It’s very strict. No bullying is tolerated. Pupils feel safe and do well. That in itself is a rarity these days.

Do you know the school personally?

Given the success of her school, you'd think people would listen carefully to what she has to say.

Baggs

"Ms Birbalsingh will argue that social mobility is not getting worse and that the picture is more "complex""

In a nutshell.

But of course there follows a high degree of apparently deliberate misunderstanding on GN.

Hey ho ?

What misunderstanding?

Ms Birbalsingh is a self-publicising cultural warrior. That's what she's good at.

Ms Birbalsingh will argue that social mobility is not getting worse and that the picture is more "complex"

"Ms Birbalsingh will argue" that night is day if it gets her in the media.

Baggs

Given the success of her school, you'd think people would listen carefully to what she has to say.

Lots of people listen. She really does talk rot though.

FarNorth

Has no-one here read the article?

I have and agree with every word. She’s one of the few who really gets it

Now I'm wondering, somewhat amusedly, if the same people who are complaining about this are the same ones who complain that too many politicians are Oxbridge PPE-ers.

And, by the way, Oxford intake from state schools is (and has been for some time) steadily increasing, especially post-grads.

The title of that article is misleading too. Nobody is "telling" working-class people to aim lower. They are just saying there are plenty of other routes to success.

MerylStreep

FarNorth

Has no-one here read the article?

I have and agree with every word. She’s one of the few who really ^gets it^

No she doesn't! Jeezy peeps.

There is value in what she says about setting achievable goals for everyone. For one person, that might be getting to Oxbridge. For another it might be becoming the first person in your immediate family to get a permanent job.

But why in God's name does she phrase it this way: Stop fixating on getting poor children to university and celebrate "small steps up the ladder", Boris Johnson's social mobility chief has said.

Why not say Stop fixating on getting not very intelligent children to university? Because she is associating being poor with being not to cope with being at University, that's why. She makes my blood boil, really she does.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61745817?at_campaign=KARANGA&at_medium=RSS

Working class? Don't think that Oxbridge is for you
Is that what she is actually saying?

Not every student from every walk of life, rich or poor, will be capable of gaining a place at Oxford or Cambridge. That is a fact. Those from poorer, disadvantaged backgrounds should be given the opportunity to do so if they are able.

She says:
If a child of parents who were long-term unemployed, or who never worked, gets a good job in their local area, isn't that a success worth celebrating?
Yes, it is but if they are capable of achieving a place at Oxford or Cambridge, they should be encouraged.

Would we really say that it doesn't count as social mobility because they are not a doctor or lawyer?" she will ask.
No, I wouldn't. Any improvement of someone's situation has to be a positive move, as long as their opportunities are not limited in the future.

Ms Birbalsingh and Alun Francis, her deputy, will argue that the widening of access to university has not always helped social mobility while the 50% of pupils who do not go on to higher education have suffered from a lack of public attention.
I think that's true. More help and further education is needed for those who do not want to go on to higher education but would be able to bring the necessary skills to the future workforce, which we so desperately need.
That 50% are not being helped as they should be into further education, apprenticeships which limits their future prospects and is detrimental to society and the economy as a whole.

"What can we do for those young people and adults who have not followed the higher education pathway but still need a route to high skills and good occupational opportunities?" she will ask.
The Big Question.

We are in desperate need in this country of young people to train and achieve the skills we need for the future. University is not for everyone but the opportunity for further education and apprenticeships as well as higher education is essential.

Further education and apprenticeships should be valued and not looked on as a second class choice.

We need skilled people.

Volver: 'She makes my blood boil' - me too - what a load of old twaddle. I wouldn't even assume that intelligence or background are deciding factors in success - when hard work and the right attitude are so vital - and take us so far.

Quite a lot seems to make your blood boil, V. Some of it is based on Worst Possible Interpretation Syndrome, I think.

Baggs

Quite a lot seems to make your blood boil, V. Some of it is based on Worst Possible Interpretation Syndrome, I think.

Of all the people that make my blood boil, she probably comes top.

I could live with a monarchy even, if only everyone could be aware of Birbalsingh's Emperor's New Clothes.

Not so much WPIS, more having had a proper education unlike anything that MissSnuffy can imagine, as a result of which it became possible to identify BS when I see it.

There are a lot of graduates, from all Uni's, flipping burgers. A degree isn't always the best path to success.