Can we discuss the migrant crisis in a sensible and humane way?

25Avalon

Why do they all want to come to the UK? We have people risking lives on small unsuitable boats crossing the Atlantic. There were Vietnamese who are not in a war situation paying money and sadly ultimately their lives travelling in the freezer compartment of a lorry. Migrants are leaving EU countries such as France where they are safe to get here by unsafe means. Why don’t the French make them welcome and settle them there? Why do they prefer here to France? Just a few thoughts with no real political intent.

They do not all want to come to the UK!!!!!!!!!! That's why I posted the graph (or tried to). Look at the graph in the link.

www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-javids-misleading-claim-about-uks-refugee-policy

And it's still not showing. Grrr!

This is a direct link

www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-javids-misleading-claim-about-uks-refugee-policy

Sorry channel not Atlantic

Why do they all want to come to the UK? We have people risking lives on small unsuitable boats crossing the Atlantic. There were Vietnamese who are not in a war situation paying money and sadly ultimately their lives travelling in the freezer compartment of a lorry. Migrants are leaving EU countries such as France where they are safe to get here by unsafe means. Why don’t the French make them welcome and settle them there? Why do they prefer here to France? Just a few thoughts with no real political intent.

growstuff and paddyann - hear hear.

No person is illegal.

For some reason, the graph didn't show.

Paddyanne
Some are desperate many are economic migrants who deliberately destroy documents and are stateless, that is illegal.

If their origin could be proved they would be sent back, if I tried to enter the US illegally I would be sent home on the next plane

paddyann54

Maybe ban the use of "illegal" immigrant and just call them people.No one is "illegal" .Using that term is ramping up the bias.People have always left their country of origin and looked for a better life ,in war and in peace .
Many of those arriving will be valuable citizens and contribute to communities around the 4 nations IF we find the way to incorporate them into society instead of making them live in detention centres barred from working for a living .
I was appalled at the opinions on teh Jeremy Vine show yesterday by people who you would think had a brain,,,but it seems the NIMBY is alive and well in 2022 .
Put yourself in their shoes before judging these desperate folk

Yes! I couldn't agree more! These people aren't illegal.

This graph is from 2020, but the situation hasn't changed much since then. It shows the number of asylums granted by the UK and belies the myth that we're accepting a disproportionate number of asylum seekers compared with other countries. Not only that, Turkey currently hosts 3.8 million refugees. www.unhcr.org/refugee-statistics/. The number of people arriving by boat on the south coast is miniscule in the context of the global problem.

Maybe ban the use of "illegal" immigrant and just call them people.No one is "illegal" .Using that term is ramping up the bias.People have always left their country of origin and looked for a better life ,in war and in peace .
Many of those arriving will be valuable citizens and contribute to communities around the 4 nations IF we find the way to incorporate them into society instead of making them live in detention centres barred from working for a living .
I was appalled at the opinions on teh Jeremy Vine show yesterday by people who you would think had a brain,,,but it seems the NIMBY is alive and well in 2022 .
Put yourself in their shoes before judging these desperate folk

For anybody who doesn't know this site:

migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/

It's the most authoritative source of factual about a range of migration issues.

Some of the migrants have decided to try and sidestep the Channel patrols, and are using speedboats to land on the Devon coast.

People carriers were waiting for them, and police are hunting for them

www.itv.com/news/westcountry/2022-06-15/large-police-presence-as-12-migrants-arrive-on-boat-at-devon-beach

www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/devon-migrant-boat-landing-locals-7211287

These EU policies aren’t exactly helping some of the African nations.

www.euractiv.com/section/agriculture-food/news/the-cap-has-devastating-effects-on-developing-countries-report-says/

I think HousePlantQueen is right when she says that this is a worldwide problem. People are leaving their homes for many different reasons, from many different places. Anybody seeking asylum is an asylum seeker, by definition. That's what the words mean. They may subsequently be shown to be in search of a better life by moving to a country where they can find better economic systems, but that doesn't mean they are not asylum seekers.

We cannot expect other countries to change centuries of culture to be more like us, and then wash our hands of them if we think they haven't done the "right" thing. I don't believe that we can expect other countries to stop using the "Africa mindset" if that is how they are. We shouldn't expect to tell them how to run their own countries. Interestingly, the country third in the list of countries hosting refugees is Colombia. I don't expect many of them came from Africa.

While its absolutely imperative to work with countries to help them be what we consider "fairer", its up to countries themselves how they behave. But this government have cut overseas aid, so that's undermined as well. Also, people are going to move about the planet in unfathomable numbers in a few years as a result of climate change. We ain't seen nothing yet, and the only way to manage this will be working together with other countries. Hopefully by then we will have a government that appreciates that.

Education for women would be a good start. I know there are many such projects already but there needs to be so many more. Education and having more control over their reproductive abilities could liberate these women which could only have positive benefits.

Aveline

Asylum seekers are one thing and economic migrants are another and they have muddied the water. The suggestion of processing nearer the country of origin is a good one. It would be good to provide help and support to these countries rather than promote a 'brain drain' of their youngest and fittest. A pretty impossible task though given the seemingly intractable infighting going on in some of these African countries. The poor women and children.

All countries would have to pay towards these centres Aveline, as the cost would be resting on a few countries in the first instance. And therein lies the problem. The UK, it seems, simply does not want to work in a team for any reason at the moment. I simply cannot see them doing this.

The problem is the “African mindset” it was no until this year that it was explained.

In any country the President is the “chief” everything belongs to the chief, so corruption is not seen as a problem by the population in general. Secondly population control is a taboo issue, it is never discussed, education of women may control population, politics certainly will not.

That’s Africa!.

Glorianny

Before setting up any centre in Calais it might be a good idea to process all the people languishing in accommodation in the UK and awaiting asylum appeals. Perhaps there should be a set period of time taken to process these applications (with allowance for extension in complicated cases). There should certainly be some way of informing applicants of the progress of their application and the projected time frame. Issuing temporary permissions to work would help as well.

I agree that the process should be time-limited and, if it over-runs people should be at least allowed to work to keep themselves. There could, perhaps (don't know enough about it) be given right to reside too.

If only M0nica. I think you've hit the nail on the head though.

The solution to the immigration problem, doesn't lie in Britain or France, but back in the countries these immigrants come from.

As I see it the immigrants fall into two groups. Those coming from the war-torn countries of the Middle East and Asia; Syria, and Irag, Afghanistan, where war is over but civil order is not to be depended on, and it some are still wracked by sectional violence Until we can bring peace to these countries so that people can be happy to stay at home. The migration from those countries will stop when there is stability and safety there.

The other group come from Africa, some of these countries are lawless, but Africa is an area where population growth by natural increase, babies and yet more babies, is still growing rapidly. Outside Africa, most countries have stabilised their populations and are close to population stability List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependencies_by_total_fertility_rate.

Unemployment runs at a very high rate and bad management, immense corruption and tribal animosities run large. Many of these countries have rich natural resources, but the benfits go into their ruler's banks accounts and do not benefit the people.

Solve these two intractable problems and the immigrant crisis will be solved.

In my opinion, we have to think long term about human migration.

It has happened since the great ape stood up and viewed the horizon, but it is now going to continue in huge numbers for a numbers of reasons, some of which will become related - war, climate change, drought and famine.

The world population needs a massive strategy. Tinkering around at the edges won’t cut it.

Migrants in general should be controlled and we do it is very hard to migrate legally into the UK.

It is illegal migrants, some are Assylum seekers, some are Economic migrants who claim to be Assylum seekers, none have visas to enter UK. They have either paid or indentured themselves to smugglers, you will never stop them because another will replace the one you arrest.

There is no legal solution, the Rwanda project is not going to be viable, the best solution is to give them work permits and some kind of hostel accommodation, we need the workers in any case.

Asylum seekers are one thing and economic migrants are another and they have muddied the water. The suggestion of processing nearer the country of origin is a good one. It would be good to provide help and support to these countries rather than promote a 'brain drain' of their youngest and fittest. A pretty impossible task though given the seemingly intractable infighting going on in some of these African countries. The poor women and children.

I feel desperately sorry for all people seeking asylum and don't know the answer but I don't think Pritty Patel should be anywhere near the problem.

Before setting up any centre in Calais it might be a good idea to process all the people languishing in accommodation in the UK and awaiting asylum appeals. Perhaps there should be a set period of time taken to process these applications (with allowance for extension in complicated cases). There should certainly be some way of informing applicants of the progress of their application and the projected time frame. Issuing temporary permissions to work would help as well.