Why is Keir Starmer trying to put so many voters off?

Doodledog

I would love to see AB take over. I'm not sure he will though - he'd have to become an MP first, and if he tried it would be obvious what he was up to, so he would be blocked.

Are you a member Doodledog? If so you will get a vote if Keir Starmer is as unpopular as a group on here seem to think.

LizzieDrip

I’m afraid I’m really missing something here. Can someone PLEASE explain what Keir Starmer has done that is derogatory to women, and why it is so important that many GNs say they cannot vote Labour at the next GE. Whatever it is, surely it’s not worth opening the door for another Conservative government. I really do want to understand what Keir’s terrible travesty is!

He didn't answer a trick question LizieDrip it was designed to get him involved in the ridiculous discussions going on at the moment about transwomen and ciswomen, and he chose to stay out of it. (God knows what Boris would answer with his track record!!!). I think Starmer is a devious, lying toad who has failed to unite the party as he promised, but I really don't care what he thinks a woman is.

I’m afraid I’m really missing something here. Can someone PLEASE explain what Keir Starmer has done that is derogatory to women, and why it is so important that many GNs say they cannot vote Labour at the next GE. Whatever it is, surely it’s not worth opening the door for another Conservative government. I really do want to understand what Keir’s terrible travesty is!

Mollygo

Casdon

Okay Monica. Nobody’s accused me of lazy thinking before, but perhaps you’re right. This is interesting though.
theconversation.com/hard-evidence-do-we-become-more-conservative-with-age-47910

I’m sure if you felt the opposite, you could come up with a report that said that too.
Does this include all those who don’t vote when they’re young and carry on not voting as they age? Does it include all the current ‘older group’ whatever that is, who don’t vote now?
Or is it saying that the only people who bother to vote as they get older are likely to vote conservative? What a crushing indictment of the other political parties.

I chose this publication because it is one of the least biased of media publications actually Mollygo.
mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-conversation/

The Liberal Democrats are a campaigning party

www.libdems.org.uk/campaigns

Mollygo What I didn't mention is that the older the voter, the more likely they are to vote. But then that also includes those who do not vote Conservative.

Increased voting propensity is spread across the group so then the way they vote is probably equally spread across the range of political parties

Casdon

Okay Monica. Nobody’s accused me of lazy thinking before, but perhaps you’re right. This is interesting though.
theconversation.com/hard-evidence-do-we-become-more-conservative-with-age-47910

I’m sure if you felt the opposite, you could come up with a report that said that too.
Does this include all those who don’t vote when they’re young and carry on not voting as they age? Does it include all the current ‘older group’ whatever that is, who don’t vote now?
Or is it saying that the only people who bother to vote as they get older are likely to vote conservative? What a crushing indictment of the other political parties.

I have looked at your link Casdon. It includes a graph that shows clearly that the older you get the greater chance there is you will vote Conservative. I have never argued with that

It also shows that, even then, only about 50% of over 65s vote Conservative, which rather supports my point of sweeping generalisations that are not supported by the facts.

50% of over 65s vote Conservative. 50% do not. More vote Conservative than in younger age groups, however it doesn't follow that therefore the majority vote Conservative.

I have bookmarked your link. It makes interesting reading and supports all my arguments about there being a significant proportion of older voters, in fact about half, who do NOT vote Conservative

maddyone

He annoyed me when he refused to say what a woman is.

He thinks he's aligning himself with current thinking and appealing to the majority.
However, he's wrong.

I need to read more about the women’s action group. Is this direct from Starmer?
Labour has good women like Angela Raynor, Yvette Cooper, Jess Phillips, Lisa Nandy. Rachel Reeves. I’ve heard Wes Streeting on self ID, he is clear on womens spaces etc.

I voted Labour when Corbyn was leader, though increasingly I disliked and distrusted him. We still lost our good traditional Labour MP at the last election. My constituency is marginal. I couldn’t vote anything but Labour or I’d in effect be voting Tory.

There are not just two political parties. Although the FPTP electoral system makes it almost inevitable that power goes to the party of rich people or the party of organised labour, there are other choices for voters.

The Liberal Democrats stand for fairness for all, not just party donors and the recent by-elections in Chesham and Amersham, North Shropshire and Tiverton and Honiton show that many people want a better alternative.

I would love to agree withmyou Iam64; I'd set my stall out to support Starmer 100%. But his stance on women, women's rights and their ability to have a voice and be recognised and heard, is too big a negative for me. If he won't even allow a women's action group to have a stand at the conference, despite having accepted their booking earlier in the year, he's saying that they shouldn't be seen or heard. How can I vote for him?

Ok, so some would rather have more of the same, a country run by a corrupt incompetent than vote for a LP with Starmer as leader?
He has integrity, he’s honest, he inherited a dogs breakfast. I’d like to see clarity on self ID. I trust the LP much more on the issues y[than the tories

I did find out the facts though Chewbacca, I’ve read lots about it, and although we all know lots of older people who aren’t Conservative that doesn’t prove anything when on average older people are. I wish that wasn’t the case, in fact I find it unpalatable and frustrating, believe me.

It looks like Starmer has sold out - thereby losing the support of all the voters that thought he was an honest politician.

What a missed opportunity for him to speak the truth about brexit and stand up for what is right and what would be best for our country.

He is not the man or the leader I hoped he was.

It's maddening isn't it M0nica; lumping a whole demographic in together without bothering to find out the facts. I am, and have been for some time, politically homeless and have no idea who I would now vote for in an election. But it won't be Boris and it won't be Starmer until he grows a backbone.

Okay Monica. Nobody’s accused me of lazy thinking before, but perhaps you’re right. This is interesting though.
theconversation.com/hard-evidence-do-we-become-more-conservative-with-age-47910

Casdon I never argued with the fact that more over-65s voted Conservative than for any other party. But this is a broad generalisation and many over 65s do not vote Conservative.

You also described these over 65 voters as deeply Conservative, without saying what this means and what proportion are deeply Conservative, Conservative or even just vaguely Conservative.

Sweeping generalisations based on dividing demographic groups into huge groups are almost always mistaken in their conclusions.

It is lazy thinking.

He annoyed me when he refused to say what a woman is.

I would love to see AB take over. I'm not sure he will though - he'd have to become an MP first, and if he tried it would be obvious what he was up to, so he would be blocked.

I desperately wanted Starmer to be all that we need him to be and I'm gutted that he's not; he has a really big problem with women. Not only is he unable to say what a woman is, he's also determined that they should be silenced at the conference in Liverpool this year.

A new row is brewing within the party after it turned down a request from six parliamentarians and the Labour Women’s Declaration group for a stand at its conference in Liverpool later this year. The “gender critical” group argues that sex-based rights should not be eroded by those based on gender identity.

Among the group who made the application are Tonia Antoniazzi, a shadow Northern Ireland minister; Dianne Hayter, a former chair of Labour’s ruling executive committee: and David Triesman, a former Labour general secretary.

“This refusal comes in spite of an apparent willingness to engage constructively in debate on issues of sex and gender, including calls from Keir Starmer for ‘more light and less heat’ and from Wes Streeting for constructive dialogue on the topic,” the group writes.

“This refusal is part of the party’s historic suppression of dissenting views on gender identity and the outdated and indeed discriminatory assumption that those of us who are advocating for more discussion and the protection of women’s rights should not have a platform/voice within the party.

I cannot vote for the Tories and I will not vote for a party that denies women a voice and can't even bring themselves to say what I am.

I agree with Grany on Andy Burnam, I do hope there is a way that he could take on the Labour Leadership. Keir Starmer makes so many missteps , it has been two and a half years now of his leadership, time to stop making excuses for him.

Here here, M0nica. I, too, am sick of being told that I think what I think because of my age.

I have thought for myself for as long as I remember, and plan to continue to do just that, however much I am patronised for doing so.

MerylStreep

Casdon
YouGov got this spectacularly wrong, didn’t they?

yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/06/22/final-eve-poll-poll

Well no, they didn’t - the poll suggested 51% against, 49% for ( but actually said it was too close to call) and the result was 52% for, 48% against. That’s a 3% difference, which is by no means spectacularly wrong?

Casdon
YouGov got this spectacularly wrong, didn’t they?

yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/06/22/final-eve-poll-poll