Woke up this morning ... morphing to discussion on Heads of State.

MaizieD Yes I copied it from Republic website as DaisyAnne asked for what parliment would do in this current crisis involving Johnson and not to put blame on the monarchy constitution or words to that affect, I don't know how parliment or government works, the best would be to show how it works and what could be improved from thoses that can explain it best.

That's all no offence meant.

Try again. www.republic.org.uk/parliamentary_republics

It's here Maizie [https://www.republic.org.uk/parliamentary_republics under the title "Parliamentary Republics"]] on the website of "Republic".

I'm afraid I am rapidly getting to the stage where I will not reply to posts represented as the posters when they are not and going unsourced. It's plagiarism. It also often means people don't understand the crux of what they are posting as their personal views.

From Grany's post at 12.07

A parliamentary system should put parliament at the centre, accountable only to the voters. In the UK parliament is weak in the face of government power, and that's largely because of the Crown and the monarchy.

The Crown gives the government huge powers to take decisions without parliament or to control parliamentary business, whether that's deciding when parliament will be running or having the power to ensure proposed laws they disagree with have little chance of getting passed.

Parliament is weak in the face of government, largely there to do what it's told. But in terms of the power of make laws, change our constitution and determine our rights, parliament is all powerful.

In the UK parliament is sovereign, which means it's the highest power in the land. No court can overturn a decision made by parliament, no treaty can override laws passed by parliament. A court could rule that a law conflicts with a treaty, or with another law, but a judge can't override or scrap that law.

That's not how a democracy should work. Parliament is there to work for us, not to rule over us. And given the control government has over parliament, the current constitution ends up concentrating huge amounts of power in the hands of the Prime Minister and government ministers.

In terms of domestic law the British government is one of the most powerful in the democratic world.

A real parliamentary democracy
The answer to this is simple enough. There's no need to throw the whole constitution out the window. We just need to make every part of it more democratic and re-balance power between people, parliament and government. Here's how.

Can I ask you if you wrote this , or have you copied it from an article?

Because, I'm sorry, but it is a real muddle and displays misunderstandings and misinterpretations of how our constitution works.

Ailidh

I enjoyed the quote.

Henceforth I shall name Mr. Johnson "The great English blight".

Ailidh

Dickens

Galaxy

Yes lots of deeply unpleasant and dangerous people have charm.

Charm is the great English blight. It does not exist outside these damp islands. It spots and kills anything it touches. It kills love; it kills art; I greatly fear, my dear Charles, it has killed you.”

—Anthony Blanche to Charles Ryder in Evelyn Waugh's "Brideshead Revisited" (1945)

I enjoyed the quote.

Henceforth I shall name Mr. Johnson "The great English blight".

I could think of another word to replace ‘blight’.

Grammaretto

Whose wedding is it? Angela Raynor mentioned it on Radio 4 this morning. Am I invited?

His own to Carrie - supposed to be at Chequers, late summer, postponed from the pandemic. Presumably they were too busy having other parties to shoehorn this one in !!

Dickens

Galaxy

Yes lots of deeply unpleasant and dangerous people have charm.

Charm is the great English blight. It does not exist outside these damp islands. It spots and kills anything it touches. It kills love; it kills art; I greatly fear, my dear Charles, it has killed you.”

—Anthony Blanche to Charles Ryder in Evelyn Waugh's "Brideshead Revisited" (1945)

I enjoyed the quote.

Henceforth I shall name Mr. Johnson "The great English blight".

Perhaps whoever paid for the wallpaper will pay for the wedding bash.

Galaxy

Yes lots of deeply unpleasant and dangerous people have charm.

Charm is the great English blight. It does not exist outside these damp islands. It spots and kills anything it touches. It kills love; it kills art; I greatly fear, my dear Charles, it has killed you.”

—Anthony Blanche to Charles Ryder in Evelyn Waugh's "Brideshead Revisited" (1945)

Yes lots of deeply unpleasant and dangerous people have charm.

i am glad he is going but on the other hand i feel a little bit sorry for him, he got his dream job but did not know how to do it. he is finished in politics, can't see him sitting on the back benches, what i don't understand is, he is a well educated man and to some a nice person. a new leader is not going to make much difference as the damaged to the party is already done....but what do i know, i am scottish and with regards to westminster we are just the people "up there"...lol

Mamie

*Plus he doesn't have Boris's charm*.
I would think most people of probity, morality and common sense would run a mile from "Boris's charm".
Personally I think he has more of the snake than the charmer.

It's a mistake to think because someone has been caught out misbehaving they are totally useless. There is no doubt Boris has charm. Even very left wing people I know who have met him will tell you he has appeal, because when introduced, he shakes your hand, looks you right in the eye, and always remembers your name. It was underestimating his appeal that lost Labour so many votes.

I'm no apologist for BOJO but wonder who all the perfect politicians whom he replaced were

I see that John Major, Tony Blair, Cameron, Brown of recent memory have all been pronouncing on my behalf as if they had never gone out of office. Several of these..... +others lib dem conservative and labour all took steps which were not good for my country.

Not sure about democracy but I do not feel represented. Starmer, you might say? He is, at present, more confident and self righteous but I do believe there is some sort of police report on his behaviour also outstanding

DaisyAnne

And the USA, with its effective, elected head of state, did so much better, didn't it Grany

What you describe as " political manoeuvres" are acts that are allowed under the constitution - that of resigning to show a lack of confidence. There is no single law against doing such a thing. It is simply rubbish to say it is unconstitutional. It's certainly not great that a government has got itself in this position. That, however, is a fault that should be firmly laid at the feet of the Conservative Party - not the Queen.

This harping on, about giving outright power to an elected head of state is beginning to sound like a search for a Mummy Bear or a Daddy Bear you can cling on to. We are grown-ups; we mess up. Perfection is not one of our attributes. However, the onus is on us to think critically not to rush for the arms of someone bigger who will save us from 'difficult' thinking.

Our problems lie with Parliament and blaming anyone else is a low blow. Parliament still has democratic control and can vote "No Confidence" in the Government if necessary. In that case, the Queen would dissolve it.

So why not tell us what Parliament, where the power lies, can do instead of aiming off the topic yet again.

A parliamentary system should put parliament at the centre, accountable only to the voters. In the UK parliament is weak in the face of government power, and that's largely because of the Crown and the monarchy.

The Crown gives the government huge powers to take decisions without parliament or to control parliamentary business, whether that's deciding when parliament will be running or having the power to ensure proposed laws they disagree with have little chance of getting passed.

Parliament is weak in the face of government, largely there to do what it's told. But in terms of the power of make laws, change our constitution and determine our rights, parliament is all powerful.

In the UK parliament is sovereign, which means it's the highest power in the land. No court can overturn a decision made by parliament, no treaty can override laws passed by parliament. A court could rule that a law conflicts with a treaty, or with another law, but a judge can't override or scrap that law.

That's not how a democracy should work. Parliament is there to work for us, not to rule over us. And given the control government has over parliament, the current constitution ends up concentrating huge amounts of power in the hands of the Prime Minister and government ministers.

In terms of domestic law the British government is one of the most powerful in the democratic world.

A real parliamentary democracy
The answer to this is simple enough. There's no need to throw the whole constitution out the window. We just need to make every part of it more democratic and re-balance power between people, parliament and government. Here's how.

Disgraceful! He must go now.

BlueBelle

Where’s Guy Fawkes when you need him ?

I cannot believe the people on TV news street interviews and those ringing in to talk programmes still completely love him and think he’s done a wonderful job

It is all in the interest of balance apparently??. Goodness knows how long it must take them to find someone who still supports Johnson.

Where’s Guy Fawkes when you need him ?

I cannot believe the people on TV news street interviews and those ringing in to talk programmes still completely love him and think he’s done a wonderful job

I wonder why, as soon as having an elected head of state is mentioned, some people immediately cite the worst examples they can think of?

There are very many good and effective models, and I’ve no idea why some assume we will do such a thing badly, rather than well.

Best headline about the Johnson resignation-that-isn’t-really from the Daily Record (from yesterday, but will apparently do all the way to October): Never-ending Tory

Mamie There are many members of the snake community who would take great and rightful offence at that remark ?

Plus he doesn't have Boris's charm.
I would think most people of probity, morality and common sense would run a mile from "Boris's charm".
Personally I think he has more of the snake than the charmer.

25Avalon

Gloria you I think the red wall will be angry if the tories now try and reverse Brexit and will not vote Tory again. Starmer has said he will not reverse Brexit so will attract his voters back. I think the tories have acted in a disgusting manner. How can you throw in your job one day because you feel your leader lacks integrity and then take it back the next under the same leader? They are all clamouring like pigs with their snouts in the trough to be next PM. About the only Tory who hasn’t turned coat is Jacob Rees Mogg.

Starmer will always be liked with the Remain campaign no matter how he tries to distance himself and of course he's a lawyer. Plus he doesn't have Boris's charm. So I doubt he will appeal.

The Daily Mail is sickening in its portrayal of Boris as an innocent 'world-beating', high-achieving victim brought down by the scheming of others. Photos of Boris by a box of Heroes chocolates, being applauded by teary No.10 staff and greeted by his children with the by-line 'We still love you daddy'

Only the new ones I presume?

And the USA, with its effective, elected head of state, did so much better, didn't it Grany

What you describe as " political manoeuvres" are acts that are allowed under the constitution - that of resigning to show a lack of confidence. There is no single law against doing such a thing. It is simply rubbish to say it is unconstitutional. It's certainly not great that a government has got itself in this position. That, however, is a fault that should be firmly laid at the feet of the Conservative Party - not the Queen.

This harping on, about giving outright power to an elected head of state is beginning to sound like a search for a Mummy Bear or a Daddy Bear you can cling on to. We are grown-ups; we mess up. Perfection is not one of our attributes. However, the onus is on us to think critically not to rush for the arms of someone bigger who will save us from 'difficult' thinking.

Our problems lie with Parliament and blaming anyone else is a low blow. Parliament still has democratic control and can vote "No Confidence" in the Government if necessary. In that case, the Queen would dissolve it.

So why not tell us what Parliament, where the power lies, can do instead of aiming off the topic yet again.

Gloria you I think the red wall will be angry if the tories now try and reverse Brexit and will not vote Tory again. Starmer has said he will not reverse Brexit so will attract his voters back. I think the tories have acted in a disgusting manner. How can you throw in your job one day because you feel your leader lacks integrity and then take it back the next under the same leader? They are all clamouring like pigs with their snouts in the trough to be next PM. About the only Tory who hasn’t turned coat is Jacob Rees Mogg.