The Forde Report what should happen now?

Interesting though that Harold Wilson who could speak BBC English when he chose always used a Northern accent in his speeches.
I think that politics generally has taken a massive step to the right and what was centre left for Tony Blair is now seen as the loony left. I just wonder how far to the right we can go and if it will take people dying of cold and starvation before sensible policies which limit profits, pay reasonable wages and provide proper support for the weakest and poorest are re-introduced.

I certainly do not believe the voting public check where a candidate was educated
Maybe not (although you were the one to bring up the educational background of Blaier et al ); but the advantages of a public school/Oxbridge education are obvious, and people don't need to look them up. By the time MPs get anywhere near the Cabinet the media has made sure that we know.

Many people are impressed by that sort of thing. Look how many posts on all sort of topics on here reference the RG/Redbrick/Oxbridge universities that their children/grandchildren/husbands attended, and disparage 'ex-polys'/'provincial universities and so on.

No, I was thinking of Boris Johnson and Reese Mogg.

Glorianny

MayBee70

If there’s only limited finance doesn’t it make more sense to use it where there’s more chance of winning the seat. Also, didn’t people who were canvassing say that many people said that Corbyn was the reason why they wouldn’t vote for Labour: something his supporters seem to disagree with.

Surely if a seat is a safe seat it doesn't really require extra finance whereas marginals do. If you already have a majority of voters you don't need to persuade more to vote for you.

But you do need to keep the ones you've got and that can be hard work, and expensive.

That is true but not everyone thinks that way MayBee70 some people seem to think they are just born to rule, even if they have no vision and no care for the country.

Do you think that is true of some in the LP, Ilovecheese?

It's not something I would associate with them.

Does Starmer saying 'I just want to see the country run properly' indicate that he's elitist who thinks he's born to rule? Or is it just the heartfelt feeling of someone who s tired of the chaos of the last few years?

I certainly do not believe the voting public check where a candidate was educated,

I cannot speak of the present but I when I canvassed for Neil Kinnock and Gordon Brown some did say ‘the Welsh/Scots
accent irritates me, or worse.

Never in many years of canvassing was I asked where the candidate was educated.

That is true but not everyone thinks that way MayBee70 some people seem to think they are just born to rule, even if they have no vision and no care for the country.

And it is true what Doodledog says here:
"Unfortunately, too many people take notice of accent and things like which school/university someone went to, rather than what they have to say. It's utterly depressing, but it pervades British society."

It’s what people believe and their vision for this country that matters, not where they came from or who their family were.

Ah, now I understand the posts were saying that it doesn't matter to the electorate whether the party leaders were part of the "liberal elite" or not.

Thank you MaizieD I couldn’t include Keir Starmer son of a
tool maker, not yet our PM

That 'working people' have the ability and intelligence to enter politics is clear - there have been many examples over the years. I do think it is harder for them though. The problem for many is the matter of needing to make a living between finishing their education and making it in politics. If you don't have political (or media) contacts, your parents can't help out financially, and you don't have access to a trust fund, it's a lot more difficult.

Politics, until you get to Cabinet level, is a risky business - getting voted out and losing your income on a regular basis is a lot easier for those with a financial cushion, particularly in the child-rearing years. Also, being taught to debate, to speak in public, to have the confidence that an Eton/Oxbridge education is a huge advantage, and inevitably those from backgrounds that provide those things will outnumber those who don't.

It's a shame that we don't have a system that better nurtures the minds and ambitions of more of the 'non-elite' or 'working class', but as it stands we don't. I do resent the idea that living in Islington, knowing your way around a wine list or having an Oxbridge degree means that you are out of touch, though. It's just reverse snobbery. It's no more true than the idea that if you just have a few O levels, lived in a council flat and had a baby in your teens you are stupid.

Unfortunately, too many people take notice of accent and things like which school/university someone went to, rather than what they have to say. It's utterly depressing, but it pervades British society.

I can't stand coffee, Casdon

Ilovecheese

So are you saying that only the children of professionals should ever be party leaders "Anniebach"?
Or only people who have been to Oxford?
I just don't understand your point.

She is pointing out that many Labour PMs could be classified as belonging to the 'urban elite', which really didn't seem to bother voters.

Corbyn is decidedly middle class.

And what about that well known and admired socialist, Viscount Stansgate?

This 'urban elite' thing is utterly ridiculous.

Oh o.k. then Casdon.
I also don't understand your remark about lifting other people's words.

Ilovecheese

So are you saying that only the children of professionals should ever be party leaders "Anniebach"?
Or only people who have been to Oxford?
I just don't understand your point.

Well, I know what she means.

So are you saying that only the children of professionals should ever be party leaders "Anniebach"?
Or only people who have been to Oxford?
I just don't understand your point.

Ilovecheese

The right wing of the party still seem to be treating the left with contempt though, (see the comments towards Grany).
A problem might be that there may be a lack of activists to knock on doors etc, if too many people are driven away, as people with strong views are more likely to be energetic and passionate.

Someone needs to bring the party together and although that is what Keir Starmer said he was going to do, it does not seem to be happening. Wouldn't a less adversarial approach be more effective.

I’m going to be honest. I am feeling adversarial, I’m frustrated with the dogma that comes from the left of the party, the failure to recognise that it could be forever unelectable due to the activists, because they are unable to see the impact of their rhetoric and actions on the rest of the voting public and the need for the party to change. I also admit to getting hacked off with people who are blinkered to reality, and more so with those who consistently lift other peoples words and post them with no personal filter employed. I resent being tarnished with that pathetic phrase ‘Tory lite’ when it’s not remotely true - I just don’t think the left/residual Corbyn way forward has any chance of electoral success. Some Labour supporters need to wake up and smell the coffee, and it’s not those of us who are in the centre of the party - obviously being in with the urban elite we are all coffee connoisseurs anyway, that goes without saying.

Oh and they should be able to spell achieve

Agree Galaxy but seems some think differently.

I am sure that annie can speak for herself but for me the origins of the leader are of no interest to me, urban elite or rural (whatever the opposite of elite is), as long as they win elections I dont care. It's a weird spin off of identity politics that acheives nothing.

I named the three who won general elections and their fathers
occupations, no coal miner or mill worker ,

I don't understand your point Anniebach are you saying that Labour prime ministers should all have been to Oxford.

Urban elite. Labour prime ministers

Clem Attlee, son of a solicitor, private prep school, Oxford university.

Harold Wilson, son of a chemist, Oxford university,

Tony Blair, son of law lecturer, private education, Oxford university.

The right wing of the party still seem to be treating the left with contempt though, (see the comments towards Grany).
A problem might be that there may be a lack of activists to knock on doors etc, if too many people are driven away, as people with strong views are more likely to be energetic and passionate.

Someone needs to bring the party together and although that is what Keir Starmer said he was going to do, it does not seem to be happening. Wouldn't a less adversarial approach be more effective.

Galaxy

Or the majority of people think the words urban elite are meaningless.

Well they are, really.