So the Final 2 - Liz and Rishi

DaisyAnne I've never been convinced about MPs knowing the price of milk, bread, etc

I agree with this, but I think there is s broader point in this case that showed he believed the you could get by on £30/week

(Incidentally, today:

Farmfoods: 4L of s/s milk £1.69 - roughly 24p/pint
Dayelsefords: 1L of s/s milk £1.49 - roughly 85p/pint

So how much is a pint of milk?)

I’ve been thinking about Sunaks idea about criminalising people who criticise the country and have just listened to last weeks You’re Dead to Me which was about Julius Caesars Rome and discussed something similar which was called proscription. Does Sunak want people to report anyone who criticise the country and the government?

I've never been convinced about MPs knowing the price of milk, bread, etc

Come to think of it, DaisyAnne, I'm not sure I could state the price of bread or milk!

I do know that dairy farmers are not being paid enough and, if we're not careful, too many of them will go out of business and we will be at the mercy of imports.

I agree that most of them are out of touch with RL.

Liz and her integrity .. Sky'Showcase -The Battle for No.10...so defensive about Boris and his mistakes...think she has a job lined up for him if she becomes PM Ugh hate when she keeps answering a question with the line " I'm somebody that....."

Dickens

Clegg went right down in my estimation when the state pension was being discussed and he was asked if he actually knew how much it was.

"Oh, ummm, about £30 a week isn't it?". This was in 2010.

Seriously underestimated - but it means he didn't have a clue.

Surely politicians of any stripe should know these things?

I've never been convinced about MPs knowing the price of milk, bread, etc. I would guess that many people who aren't on a pension or involved with the amount on behalf of a relative have very little knowledge about what the basic is.

Let's face it, there are some getting the new pension on here who don't appreciate that their base amount is the old pension amount + the pension credit amount + plus and increasing amount on top because of compound interest. All new pensioners get it whether, under the old rules, they need it or not. They don't seem to understand that their "not enough" is much more than older pensioners' "not enough".

Obviously, neither basic pension is enough. We should be beating MPs (metaphorically) over the head with the amount we expect people to live on, not expecting them to understand. Although we all must sometimes ask ourselves if we are actually in the asylum, madness lies in expecting those making our laws to know every detail of people's incomes and how they manage to live on them.

Oh my Lord, how the other half live. That tells us so much doesn’t it?

Clegg went right down in my estimation when the state pension was being discussed and he was asked if he actually knew how much it was.

"Oh, ummm, about £30 a week isn't it?". This was in 2010.

Seriously underestimated - but it means he didn't have a clue.

Surely politicians of any stripe should know these things?

I disliked Clegg when I saw him in that first leadership debate, when Cameron and Brown said they agreed with Nick. I saw Brown and Cameron as streets ahead of Clegg. I despise him for voting with the tories on the bedroom tax until our of coalition, when he realised how bad the policy is.

My favourite was Charles Kennedy, who sadly died at 55 due to his alcoholism. Very sad. I didn’t like Nick Clegg at all.

..and my DP is less forgiving, quote: Clegg looked at Cameron and saw someone like him

I was never keen on Clegg as LibDem leader.
But then I liked Jeremy Thorpe and the old Liberals so what do I know?

MayBee70

Which was unfair. The LibDems reined in a lot of the worst Tory policies. They will never form a coalition with them again and have always worked well with Labour in the past.

Yes, they did but they caved in on some of their own policies in order to gain some power.

I hear Nick Clegg is on his way back to the UK (or so DH told me a little while ago).

... and my Swedish colleagues thought Johnson "buffel som"... which means he has the charm and manner of a buffalo...

volver

I've been laughing ever since the "just ignore her" comment. Nothing else to do, is there?

When me and my partner ran a consultancy agency (no more - thanks Brexit!) we had lots of conversations with our Scandi colleagues and customers - they were people we'd known for years and with whom we'd socialised.

Interestingly, NS was highly regarded among them - most had visited Scotland for the oil exhibitions, conferences, etc. Norway and Scotland share historic links, too.

Just sayin' (as they say)...

rosie1959

MayBee70

Why is there this attitude in the country of ‘well, there’s no alternative’. We have a very sensible, intelligent, caring shadow cabinet that are quite capable of helping the people of this country through the many problems it’s facing but people seem to have been gaslighted into thinking they don’t exist. I know it will mean a coalition of some kind and will need the backing of the SNP but when they get elected I, for one, will be getting behind them and doing everything in my power to make this country a better place for my children and grandchildren. Something I never thought I would have to be doing at my age.

As Starmee has said he will never join forces with the SNP this would be very unlikely.
We are unlikely to have an election in the near future so maybe Labour could get their act together and win on their own merits. Starmer is going to to do a little less sitting on the fence for this to happen

Starmer is unlikely to need the backing of the SNP, although they may choose to work in a pact with him and the other smaller parties. His plans do not seem to include a coalition. He would, in my opinion - and it seems quite possibly his - be far better working towards a pact than a coalition. That could bring in PR and the other bills needed to give Labour, Lib Dems, Green Party, etc., time to unearth just what the Conservatives have done over the last 12 years.

Those in the pact may want to have a quick election once we have PR, although it would be very rare for political parties to give up any power once they have it.

Petera

MayBee70

Which was unfair. The LibDems reined in a lot of the worst Tory policies. They will never form a coalition with them again and have always worked well with Labour in the past.

I don't think we'll ever really know the truth on this. At best though I think Clegg was (and probably still is - see defences of Facebook) naive.

He could have insisted on referendum on PR and that the Conservative government campaigned for it (and put forward a real PR system).

He also accepted the role of Deputy PM which, to borrow the American phrase about the VP, isn't worth a bucket of warm spit. If he'd insisted on Chancellor he would have had real power.

Remember the position that Cameron was in - without Clegg it would have been Lib-Lab - I think he would have accepted almost anything.

...and my DP is less forgiving, quote: Clegg looked at Cameron and saw someone like him.

MayBee70

Which was unfair. The LibDems reined in a lot of the worst Tory policies. They will never form a coalition with them again and have always worked well with Labour in the past.

I don't think we'll ever really know the truth on this. At best though I think Clegg was (and probably still is - see defences of Facebook) naive.

He could have insisted on referendum on PR and that the Conservative government campaigned for it (and put forward a real PR system).

He also accepted the role of Deputy PM which, to borrow the American phrase about the VP, isn't worth a bucket of warm spit. If he'd insisted on Chancellor he would have had real power.

Remember the position that Cameron was in - without Clegg it would have been Lib-Lab - I think he would have accepted almost anything.

Which was unfair. The LibDems reined in a lot of the worst Tory policies. They will never form a coalition with them again and have always worked well with Labour in the past.

MayBee70

Why is there this attitude in the country of ‘well, there’s no alternative’. We have a very sensible, intelligent, caring shadow cabinet that are quite capable of helping the people of this country through the many problems it’s facing but people seem to have been gaslighted into thinking they don’t exist. I know it will mean a coalition of some kind and will need the backing of the SNP but when they get elected I, for one, will be getting behind them and doing everything in my power to make this country a better place for my children and grandchildren. Something I never thought I would have to be doing at my age.

We'd have to change the voting system for that to happen unless the government of the day didn't have a working majority and formed a coalition with a smaller party.

Last time that happened, the smaller party became unpopular as a result.

MayBee70

Why is there this attitude in the country of ‘well, there’s no alternative’. We have a very sensible, intelligent, caring shadow cabinet that are quite capable of helping the people of this country through the many problems it’s facing but people seem to have been gaslighted into thinking they don’t exist. I know it will mean a coalition of some kind and will need the backing of the SNP but when they get elected I, for one, will be getting behind them and doing everything in my power to make this country a better place for my children and grandchildren. Something I never thought I would have to be doing at my age.

As Starmee has said he will never join forces with the SNP this would be very unlikely.
We are unlikely to have an election in the near future so maybe Labour could get their act together and win on their own merits. Starmer is going to to do a little less sitting on the fence for this to happen

Why is there this attitude in the country of ‘well, there’s no alternative’. We have a very sensible, intelligent, caring shadow cabinet that are quite capable of helping the people of this country through the many problems it’s facing but people seem to have been gaslighted into thinking they don’t exist. I know it will mean a coalition of some kind and will need the backing of the SNP but when they get elected I, for one, will be getting behind them and doing everything in my power to make this country a better place for my children and grandchildren. Something I never thought I would have to be doing at my age.

Tax cuts are not aimed at the poor or even those on a reasonable salary. It is aimed at the wealthy. They will benefit but no one else will.

Yes indeed Maizie. I’m ideologically opposed to tax cuts for the very reason you cite. Plus I think income tax is more than low enough already. We need services not tax cuts.

Those on a low or even modest income will find their tax cuts eaten up immediately by their weekly shop and their fuel bills.

There are people on incomes so low that they don't actually pay any tax. What are 'tax cuts' going to do for them?

I can hardly believe it’s come to this. I’m totally unimpressed with them both.

Two would be leaders slugging it out over tax cuts

Absolutely, one hundred per cent. I agree with this, and I’m not particularly left wing, if anything, more right of centre, but certainly not hard right in any way. I just think all the things that need money and they want to give us tax cuts. Sunak saying 4 pennies off the pound (alright I know not next week) but it’s beyond ridiculous. We all have to pay tax if we qualify in order to pay for our services. I still pay tax as I have an occupational pension, not huge but I get it. I don’t mind paying tax because it provides services. The services we all use.

It's utterly depressing. - indeed so. But what to do about it.....?

As long as we have our archaic voting system we are stuck with this lot - and no way are they going to bring in electoral reform.