Recall Parliament?

Grany

Daisymae

Gordon Brown has apparently said that if Johnson, Truss and Sunak can't agree an emergency budget in the next few days then Parliament should be recalled so that plans can be made. Sounds good to me. There's a definite air if Rome burning while Nero plays with his fiddle. So to speak.

Glad someone emphasises the seriousness of the situation in this country that this government brought about. And the need to do something now.

The queen has shown no interest or concern in the behaviour of the #Tories so far & apparently cares only about making sure laws don’t impact her.

Yet we continue to fund the Windsors’ life of luxury, whilst other families go hungry. Time to suspend all public funding, sequestrate the Crown Estates and turn all the palaces and castles into non-resident attractions. Let them live off their own money, for a change.

If the Queen had talked to the nation, you would be after her for that Grany. She is not a political HoS, as even you must know by now. She has to remain strictly neutral concerning political matters. The government would have to have agreed for her to be able to say anything on this matter.

Why do you have to boringly bring the RF into every other subject you can, even though you seem to have little, actual knowledge of her role? Start an "I hate the Royal Family" thread, for heavens sake and then we can all avoid it.

Having now completed my reading of this thread I am pleased to see that several people have explained what actually happened in 200. Whether* Vetrep* will understand is another matter.

I noted also that Maizie has yet again explained about the deficit.

Maizie I think that you should type it on word and then import as necessary, save you a bit of time. You do an excellent job. Thank you.

Vetrep

Short memories! Gordon Brown left the country bankrupt and announced it gleefully. The austerity that followed was a direct result of Labour’s mismanagement.
You all wanted Boris out, now you want him back in to help us out ?‍♀️ You can’t have it both ways. I hope it is proved that he was ousted illegally because God help us all if your much loved but decidedly dodgy Labour lot get in. They make me ?

Not that old trope again! We've been through it on GN so many times. I for one am getting fed up with repeating the response (not that I have in recent months) but there are many others on here who could explain it again, if they had the energy.

Something has just clicked with me, I must be slow on the uptake. If the government delays, or doesn’t set an emergency budget there won’t be a shortage of energy this winter because people won’t be able to afford their bills and will go cold.

If they enable people to pay their bills and use energy at the previous rate then we are in for a winter of power cuts because there won’t be enough energy to supply households and businesses. It took this article for me to realise the link.

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/uk-government-planning-energy-blackouts-24716380

Daisymae

Gordon Brown has apparently said that if Johnson, Truss and Sunak can't agree an emergency budget in the next few days then Parliament should be recalled so that plans can be made. Sounds good to me. There's a definite air if Rome burning while Nero plays with his fiddle. So to speak.

Glad someone emphasises the seriousness of the situation in this country that this government brought about. And the need to do something now.

The queen has shown no interest or concern in the behaviour of the #Tories so far & apparently cares only about making sure laws don’t impact her.

Yet we continue to fund the Windsors’ life of luxury, whilst other families go hungry. Time to suspend all public funding, sequestrate the Crown Estates and turn all the palaces and castles into non-resident attractions. Let them live off their own money, for a change.

MaizieD

^the mentality of constant borrowing to put a plaster over things doesn’t make sense.^

It doesn't make sense to you, Allsorts, because you, along with most of the population cannot, or refuse to, understand that a government budget isn't the same as a household budget. Nor is it run like a business.

There are similarities in the way it is run to both household and business budgets but there is one very significant difference. And that difference is that the government can issue money. Businesses and households can't do that.

In the sum which is called government 'borrowing' there are two elements. One is money that has been issued by the Bank of England, on the government's instructions, which is not owed to anyone at all because it is completely new money (and this is a major element of our so called 'borrowing'). The other is money deposited with the government through the sale of government bonds and in government savings accounts. People have been investing in government bonds for centuries. They are a safe place for this money because the government will always repay the sum invested if asked to do so and, in the meanwhile, it pays interest on the sum invested/saved. There is no other savings/investment vehicle as safe as this. Any other type of investment is a gamble.

As far as the ordinary, day to day economy is concerned, government spending on public services and infrastructure not only provides services to the public but it also helps to keep the economy running. It provides jobs and buys from the private sector. The wages of the public sector employees are spent into the economy, supporting private sector businesses and, in turn, helping to create employment in that sector.

Ultimately, a large part of the money the government spends into the economy comes back to it by way of taxation (by which I mean not only income tax and VAT, but also fees for things like passports and driving licences).

Taxation is necessary, not to finance government spending, but to ensure that there is not too much money circulating in the economy and causing inflation. It has other functions, too, but that is the main one.

The problem for us, the ordinary people, comes when the government tries to treat the national budget like a household budget and cuts its spending in order to 'balance the books'. All that happens is that many people have less money to spend because their jobs have been cut, there is less money circulating in the domestic economy because fewer people can afford its goods and services , businesses go under and the government takes in less tax... This is what is going to happen in the coming recession if the government does very little to help.

Of course, this is a very simplified version. There are complex interactions within the economy, a need for good forecasting and need for strategic planning, but providing for the wellbeing of a nation can't be left to the 'market'. without any state provision. You only have to read some 19th C social commentators, like Dickens, or Mayhew, or Engels to see what leaving it to the market' with minimal state intervention does for the populace. Not a place most people want to go back to.

Interesting and very clearly explained. And it’s clear that without debt there would be no money. The more debt, the more money in the economy, creating a boom and bust situation. When you have a boom the banks make borrowing easier so consequently people get into even more debt until they end up over extended and then default. That’s what happened in 2008 with the US sub prime lending. A wave of defaults rippled across the entire economy, banks went insolvent and we had a financial crisis and recession. The banks stop lending, which makes the recession even worse, people lose their jobs and have to rely even more on debt just to survive. So we have a system where we have to borrow in order to have an economy. We need to look at the way money is created. If we don’t want any debt, then we’re essentially saying that we don’t want any money, and want a moneyless economy.

the mentality of constant borrowing to put a plaster over things doesn’t make sense.

It doesn't make sense to you, Allsorts, because you, along with most of the population cannot, or refuse to, understand that a government budget isn't the same as a household budget. Nor is it run like a business.

There are similarities in the way it is run to both household and business budgets but there is one very significant difference. And that difference is that the government can issue money. Businesses and households can't do that.

In the sum which is called government 'borrowing' there are two elements. One is money that has been issued by the Bank of England, on the government's instructions, which is not owed to anyone at all because it is completely new money (and this is a major element of our so called 'borrowing'). The other is money deposited with the government through the sale of government bonds and in government savings accounts. People have been investing in government bonds for centuries. They are a safe place for this money because the government will always repay the sum invested if asked to do so and, in the meanwhile, it pays interest on the sum invested/saved. There is no other savings/investment vehicle as safe as this. Any other type of investment is a gamble.

As far as the ordinary, day to day economy is concerned, government spending on public services and infrastructure not only provides services to the public but it also helps to keep the economy running. It provides jobs and buys from the private sector. The wages of the public sector employees are spent into the economy, supporting private sector businesses and, in turn, helping to create employment in that sector.

Ultimately, a large part of the money the government spends into the economy comes back to it by way of taxation (by which I mean not only income tax and VAT, but also fees for things like passports and driving licences).

Taxation is necessary, not to finance government spending, but to ensure that there is not too much money circulating in the economy and causing inflation. It has other functions, too, but that is the main one.

The problem for us, the ordinary people, comes when the government tries to treat the national budget like a household budget and cuts its spending in order to 'balance the books'. All that happens is that many people have less money to spend because their jobs have been cut, there is less money circulating in the domestic economy because fewer people can afford its goods and services , businesses go under and the government takes in less tax... This is what is going to happen in the coming recession if the government does very little to help.

Of course, this is a very simplified version. There are complex interactions within the economy, a need for good forecasting and need for strategic planning, but providing for the wellbeing of a nation can't be left to the 'market'. without any state provision. You only have to read some 19th C social commentators, like Dickens, or Mayhew, or Engels to see what leaving it to the market' with minimal state intervention does for the populace. Not a place most people want to go back to.

Even in the past when interest rates were high and I was a very young mom, I don’t remember food prices as high as tgey are now, we didn’t have central heating but a coal fire and immersion heater, I was careful but not frugal. No food banks then. I do think it’s global problem and the mentality of constant borrowing to put a plaster over things doesn’t make sense. It is genuinely very worrying and so hard for the younger generations, we never had Covid to cope with as they have. I feel more for them, but I think for me on a limited pension something will have to give this winter.

The point is that Johnson who is still in office, is still accepting the P.M's salary but doing nothing to earn it. No one wants him back, but while he is still in office he should be working. As should the cabinet. Instead of wasting time shrieking about witch hunts Nadine Dorries should get some work done.Truss and Sunak should develop a plan for the crisis and perhaps we should be getting ready to go on a monumental protest.

Yes I've looked it up now, it's de jure the speaker but de facto the cabinet. From a briefing note in the HoC library:

Under Standing Orders, the Speaker of the House of Commons determines whether the House is to be recalled on the basis of representations made by Ministers.

Under the Labour Government (1997-2010), Members argued that they, rather than the Government, should be able to make representations to the Speaker to recall Parliament. The Labour Government announced proposals to allow MPs as well as the Government to request that the Speaker recall Parliament but the proposals were never implemented.

I think it is the speaker - but he needs support from MPs.

Good question Petera, I have no idea.

Could the other parties get back together, maybe in some other venue- and shame the Tories into action? Many of us hope for a great collaboration of other parties to ensure the demise of the Cons at next election- that would be a great way to start.

Vetrep

Short memories! Gordon Brown left the country bankrupt and announced it gleefully. The austerity that followed was a direct result of Labour’s mismanagement.
You all wanted Boris out, now you want him back in to help us out ?‍♀️ You can’t have it both ways. I hope it is proved that he was ousted illegally because God help us all if your much loved but decidedly dodgy Labour lot get in. They make me ?

This is nonsense. GB did not leave the country bankrupt - he left it as it was because of the bankers' crisis. There was no 'gleeful' announcement - unless I'm forgetting because of my short memory and you could link us up to any sort of glee?

Who are you accusing of wanting Johnson back? I most certainly don't; although it would be good if he'd been decent enough to work out his notice, or even donate his salary to a food bank while he's been on holiday. If he was ousted illegally it would be the Tories who were guilty, as they got rid of him, not Labour.

What is it that makes you vomit? That's not really clear from your post.

Daisymae

Gordon Brown has apparently said that if Johnson, Truss and Sunak can't agree an emergency budget in the next few days then Parliament should be recalled so that plans can be made. Sounds good to me. There's a definite air if Rome burning while Nero plays with his fiddle. So to speak.

I could look this up I guess, but someone here will know immediately - who has the power to recall parliament?

Does it lie solely with the PM, or the cabinet, or the Speaker, or some obscure functionary who walks around in a wig and Edwardian beekeeping outfit shouting "I see strangers" (clearly - I think - it can't be parliament as it's not sitting...)?

None of the MPs will want to return from their holidays to a recalled Parliament.

I think they have a long summer break because their breaks mirror the school year and allow MPs to spend school holidays with their families.

BoJo isn't going to do a stroke of work if he can possibly avoid it now that he's leaving No.10 (or at least we have to hope he is!).

The only thing that might force them all back would be something awful like Putin declaring war on us or dropping a bomb here.

No one wants Johnson back, but he's clinging on to power so he has the authority to kick support packages off. Or developing some sort of plan. You know the things that they are paid for.

As a spokeswoman of Trump announced

“There are alternative facts”?

Vetrep

Short memories! Gordon Brown left the country bankrupt and announced it gleefully. The austerity that followed was a direct result of Labour’s mismanagement.
You all wanted Boris out, now you want him back in to help us out ?‍♀️ You can’t have it both ways. I hope it is proved that he was ousted illegally because God help us all if your much loved but decidedly dodgy Labour lot get in. They make me ?

Who, just who wants Johnson back? If you are going to make such statements, then perhaps you could tell us who you have identified as such a person on Gransnet.

Gordon Brown did not leave the country bankrupt, nor did he announce that he had. Liam Byrne left the note; he has apologised, at every opportunity, ever since.

It was not a case that there was no money. Liam Byrne had been working hard and left behind a plan that would halve the deficit incurred (as so many other countries had had to do) during the International Monetary Crisis.

If you are ignorant of facts, please do not repeat fiction as if it was just as valuable. It isn't.

The deficit was 850 Billion ,A manageable sum unlike the 3 TRILLION this government is headed towards at speed .I'm not a labour supporter but I always thought Brown was ousted for the wrong reasons .
Saying that he did his fair share of lying during the 2014 referendum...better together we are not and where is this powerful federal Scotland you promised?

Vetrep

Short memories! Gordon Brown left the country bankrupt and announced it gleefully. The austerity that followed was a direct result of Labour’s mismanagement.
You all wanted Boris out, now you want him back in to help us out ?‍♀️ You can’t have it both ways. I hope it is proved that he was ousted illegally because God help us all if your much loved but decidedly dodgy Labour lot get in. They make me ?

Labour’s ‘mismanagement’ was in no small part due to the financial crisis, and the austerity that followed was mostly as a consequence of choices which afforded the Coalition government the opportunity to do a lot of things rooted in ideology, not necessity, and blame it on Labour. I agree, the last Labour government didn’t exactly cover themselves in glory, but this lot are a bunch of rich, entitled pillocks with no respect for the public and without the first idea of how ordinary people live. Whoever becomes PM, hopefully won’t be able to save them from being voted out at the next election, and the sooner the better.

RichmondPark1

Nobody here has said they want Boris back Vetrep

I don't think that Vetrep has noticed that Johnson hasn't actually gone yet. He is still drawing PM's pay and enjoying PM's perks but refusing to carry out a PM's responsibilities. In the face of the economic crisis we are in, and the hardship it is going to cause a very large proportion of the populace in the coming months, this refusal is utterly reprehensible.

Come the revolution….
I am truly fearful about the future. I don’t remember anything this bad.

Some might disagree but it’s an interesting read.

theconversation.com/fact-check-did-labour-overspend-and-leave-a-deficit-that-was-out-of-control-41118

Nobody here has said they want Boris back Vetrep

Short memories! Gordon Brown left the country bankrupt and announced it gleefully. The austerity that followed was a direct result of Labour’s mismanagement.
You all wanted Boris out, now you want him back in to help us out ?‍♀️ You can’t have it both ways. I hope it is proved that he was ousted illegally because God help us all if your much loved but decidedly dodgy Labour lot get in. They make me ?