Transphobic Bullying

Yours is a very disturbing example of what can happen Mollgo when those being bullied are accused of being transphobic, and those whose job it is to protect them fear that they too will have the same accusation thrown at them.

Maybe it's easier for some to discount it as exaggerated or false, rather than to face the truth.

That’s the second time tri, sorry , Glorianny has accused me, (very carefully disguised) of lying. I’m not, so her accusations leave me unmoved and her looking bad. Previous experience of reading posts makes her claims look like another desperate attempt to avoid describing what she actually means by ‘overly influenced’. I’ve seen this tactic used before. I never really expected her to be able to answer, so I’m not disappointed.

Sorry It isn't my job to explain to you what you think overly influenced means. Either you think it or you don't. If you think it, discuss it with the child. If you don't, it doesn't matter. It's just yet another example on these threads of how the so called feminist gender critical unite to oppose anyone who might question or draw attention to any inconsistencies in their posts.

I have no idea what is going on in Mollygo's GC's school and I suspect neither does she, really. I have no doubt her GD is acutely conscious of her gran's views and seeks to please. There probably is a trans child in the school and that child may or may not be a bully but I very much doubt if all the staff are behaving as described and certainly some of the reported actions are actually illegal and could be reported to the police. The problem with these stories of what happens in schools is that third party accounts usually exaggerate events, frequently embroider, and often bear absolutely no resemblance to what actually happened. I've witnessed young girls bullying and being bullied and the stories they told their parents frequently varied from the events I actually observed. I've no reason to think that older girls don't behave in the same way.

Glorianny said
If you think your child is being overly influenced by this person then discuss it with them.
Incidently the "transphobia card" sounds to me like an updated version of the "race card" used to mask real transphobia.

Like Mollygo, I don't know what is meant by "overly influenced" in this post, or what Mollygo is expected to discuss.

The person who claims to be trans is bullying other pupils, including Mollygo's DGC.
That person says that anyone who doesn't fit in with her every wish is transphobic and school staff seem to be going along with it.

Thus the 'trans' pupil is "playing the transphobia card" to signify she is above criticism of any kind.

Staff should be looking at situations to work out what's happening, not accepting all this girl's complaints of transphobia as complete fact.

Great post happycatholicwife with your clear explanation of what it means to play the race card and how playing a trans card can have the same result.

Thanks happycatholicwife1, you explained that use of the race card so much better than I did and clarifies how the other card can and is being used in the same way.

Hello tri oops, sorry, Glorianny, you’ve still not explained what you mean by overly influenced. Saying I took it out of context-no I didn’t. Read the post.

What do you think this trans girl might be doing that could be overly influencing my DGD?
What impact do you think her overly influencing would have?

What experience of overly influencing have you had or not had that enables you to answer/not answer these questions.

DW INEAA.

However schools were given training from Stonewall which told them that the Equality Act requires them to use pupils' preferred pronouns.
Many haven't yet grasped that they were misled.

MerylStreep

Has anything changed since May 2022 when the attorney general stated that schools can treat pupils who identify as trans as if they were their birth sex because under 18s can not legally change sex.
If this is still the case what are children supposed to do.

If Liz Truss is elected its strongly rumoured that Suella Braverman will be in her cabinet. Stonewall will need to watch their backs.

School children are, of course, all under 18 so not legally adults.

No school pupil needs to be addressed as 'they'.

I find it very hard to read or digest anything from someone who uses expressions like the "transphobic card" apparently not recognising the links with the term the racist card. Something which most people seeking equality for all find totally unacceptable. To separate language like that and try to find the real "point" of the post which seems to be that she imagines one trans girl is exhibiting an enormous amount of control over not only her fellow students but the entire staff of a school seems very convenient given Mollygo's views.
When actually some of what she posted about porn being shared is either untrue or based on false premises. It is possible to report children who share images with underage children and the police will act.

As for the term "overly influenced" I think you should take into account the whole sentence which was "If you think your child is being overly influenced" so the definition would naturally differ depending on your personal values. But as has been said focussing on a single word and not looking at the whole of the post is unacceptable.

Has anything changed since May 2022 when the attorney general stated that schools can treat pupils who identify as trans as if they were their birth sex because under 18s can not legally change sex.
If this is still the case what are children supposed to do.

If Liz Truss is elected its strongly rumoured that Suella Braverman will be in her cabinet. Stonewall will need to watch their backs.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with Glorianny on 'playing the race card'. Playing the race card refers to someone doing wrong and deliberately using their race as a shield when accused, claiming that the accusation is because of their race. A really good example of playing the race card is the black actor in Chicago (Jussie Smollett) who pretended to be attacked by Trump supporters, but who had actually planned it all out and paid some other black men to attack him and put a noose around his neck. When this happens, a person is well within their right, and not being racist, to use the comment 'playing the race card'.

Sorry - Gloriann*y*.

Glorianna, however it was phrased, the point of Molly's post was that children are being bullied by someone who has latched onto the 'trans cause' and is using it for power play, and that things have gone so far that the adults involved are unable to stand up to the pressure of risking accusations of transphobia.

Picking up on one phrase in Molly's post whilst ignoring the point of the post is not very helpful, and the obvious inability to explain what was meant by 'overly influenced' suggests that it was another attempt to divert the conversation away from an indefensible situation towards a discussion of phraseology. I understand why you mentioned the 'card' phrase, but it is telling that you ignored the rest of the post, other than to suggest obliquely that Molly's grand-daughter was somehow to blame, which is below the belt.

just as using the wrong pronoun is an attempt to undermine them and deny their right to be the person they have said they are.

I'm not at all interested in following pronoun preferences.
If someone doesn't want me to use standard pronouns, which do actually have meanings, my preference is to refer to that person as 'they' or 'their preferred name' or 'that person' or 'the person in blue' etc etc.

I don't have to pretend they are the person they have said they are if I know it to be untrue.
It's not expected for anything else - profession, age, ethnicity, education etc etc so why is it expected for sex?

Lots of people who can accept people as people, while disagreeing with their lifestyle personally, or not finding it comfortable to be around. The distinctions of each personality and friendship are at play. Two people with opposing views about a matter might, because of history or their personal characteristics, make a go of a friendship; whereas, two people who don't mesh on the personality level may never be able to be friends. There are plenty of us out here who are just sick and tired of being branded this or that because we will stand up and say that, no, you can never really change your personal sex. You can do an awful lot to change your identity, but it does not really change your biological sex. There are a lot of other examples for which people will call you every name in the book, deem you wholly reprehensible, and a phobic hater as well. That may or may not apply to a lot of people, but it doesn't stop others from treating you like you ought to be sent to a desert island, whether they actually know you or not. The very idea that you oppose their opinion and won't follow to the most ridiculous level of virtue signaling support is enough to condemn a person. This kind of overreaction does not make people more tolerant. It just makes them offended, afraid of being punished, and more likely to keep their opinions and their friendships to themselves.

If the individual chops and changes his/her gender on a day-to-day basis, how the blazes is everyone supposed to know whether to refer to them as he or she? That isn't "refusing to meet any of those requests " , it is being too confused to meet them. If he/she doesn't give classmates a clue, they can't expect them to play along.

It does sound as if they are just attempting to manage each day as it comes, to be honest.

Using the wrong pronoun could be a genuine mistake Glorianny and have nothing to do with the intention of deliberately undermining someone.

I'm not sure how pupils at your GS's school are expected to know and accommodate this student either MissA, or the staff for that matter.

My grandson has told me about "some dude" at school, who is sometimes a she, sometimes he, and often no gender at all. (And how they are expected to accommodate this)

If I thought he was deliberately bullying someone by "forgetting" or "bantering", I'd be down on him like a ton of bricks, but at the same time, I'm not sure how pupils are expected to know what gender is preferred on any one day, since the person wears male uniform, uses male facilities.

eazybee

The term 'playing the race card' is condemned as offensive, but that does not mean that the situations provoking the comment should not be investigated, witness the Rochdale grooming abuse.
The same applies to 'transphobia' when perfectly reasonable objections to this label are met with howls of outrage and complaints of closed minds and bullying.
If it is true that a female pupil is able to report people who refuse, quite correctly, to use the third person plural pronoun when referring to her, then the bullying and safeguarding policy needs to be immediately reviewed and discussed with all parents and pupils.
Primary school age children registering for their local library reading challenge were asked for their preferred pronoun; most did not understand what the (embarrassed) librarian meant.
Such nonsense, to satisfy the whims of a minute percentage of the population.

It doesn't make the term playing the race card any less offensive to use instances like the Rochdale case (what would racists do if it hadn't happened? It's also very wrong to imagine abuse by white men or men from other communities isn't happening)
If someone prefers to be called by a name they have chosen rather than the name they were given at birth would you regard it as acceptable for other pupils to use their birth name? If a child becomes part of a blended family and wants to use their last name is it OK for others to call her by her previous name?
You see refusing to meet any of those requests is in fact denying the right of that person to live as they choose, just as using the wrong pronoun is an attempt to undermine them and deny their right to be the person they have said they are.

That would certainly make for an interesting documentary Doodledog. I find it quite embarrassing that its been able to go as far as it has TBH.

A shameful time and we can only hope that lessons have been and will continue to be learned.

It does appear though Elegran that in the case of Molly's GD's school when it comes to the bully being trans, the teachers and staff are leaving things for fear of being accused of being transphobic.

As you say kevincharley hasn't posted that they should just leave things or even suggested that that should be the case.

Glorianny

kevincharley

Trying to stop bullying is like trying to catch sand in a sieve. If it's not LBTGQ then it'll be something else.
It was glasses and braces when I was a kid - amongst other things.

What a helpful and incisive post. Perhaps schools and other organisations dealing with young people should just leave things and let the bullies do as they will. Survival of the fittest (or the most brutal) perhaps.

It is indeed like trying to catch sand in a sieve. Teachers spend a lot of time sieving out exactly who said or did what from the "He said" and the "She said" and the "They started it". So do parents

I don't see kevincharley adding that they should just leave things! The post merely described how finely the teacher has to weigh whether, for instance, the use of an unwanted pronoun was accidental or deliberate bullying.

The term 'playing the race card' is condemned as offensive, but that does not mean that the situations provoking the comment should not be investigated, witness the Rochdale grooming abuse.
The same applies to 'transphobia' when perfectly reasonable objections to this label are met with howls of outrage and complaints of closed minds and bullying.
If it is true that a female pupil is able to report people who refuse, quite correctly, to use the third person plural pronoun when referring to her, then the bullying and safeguarding policy needs to be immediately reviewed and discussed with all parents and pupils.
Primary school age children registering for their local library reading challenge were asked for their preferred pronoun; most did not understand what the (embarrassed) librarian meant.
Such nonsense, to satisfy the whims of a minute percentage of the population.

kevincharley

Trying to stop bullying is like trying to catch sand in a sieve. If it's not LBTGQ then it'll be something else.
It was glasses and braces when I was a kid - amongst other things.

What a helpful and incisive post. Perhaps schools and other organisations dealing with young people should just leave things and let the bullies do as they will. Survival of the fittest (or the most brutal) perhaps.

Glorianny
As for what overly influenced means if you don't understand it obviously isn't happening so it doesn't matter.
How can you be so certain it isn’t happening, when you haven’t said what do you mean by it.

You mean you can’t explain it.

I didn’t expect you would be able to define what you meant so I’m not surprised.