Transphobic Bullying

Smileless2012

A point well made and worth remembering Lathryus. TRA's and Stonewall have done a lot of harm to those they claim to represent and support.

I can't wait for the day when we can look back and marvel at how completely so many people were taken in by Stonewall. Maybe there will be a TV series or biopic about one of the brave women who have risked so much to stand up to their bullying, and maybe transpeople who just want to live as though they were the opposite sex will be able to do peacefully so without being associated with extremism and indoctrination. Let's hope so.

A point well made and worth remembering Lathryus. TRA's and Stonewall have done a lot of harm to those they claim to represent and support.

Trying to stop bullying is like trying to catch sand in a sieve. If it's not LBTGQ then it'll be something else.
It was glasses and braces when I was a kid - amongst other things.

Mollygoyou mentioned the playing transphobic card
And then said

Thank you for your mention of ‘the race card’ Glorianny. I hadn’t realised that that’s what was happening.
Using the transphobic card like a ‘race card’ is exactly what this trans is doing
If you don't understand that the term Playing the race card^is used by racists to excuse their racism and to condemn the actions of people to establish racial equality, then you are unlikely to understand that using the term ^playing the transphobic card is exactly the same situation. The fact that you choose to use such a term means that you are obviously neither as well informed or as understanding of equality as you pretend. It's quite simple using either term is unacceptable. I'm sorry to have to be so direct but you left me with no choice by attempting to use my previous comment against me.

As for what overly influenced means if you don't understand it obviously isn't happening so it doesn't matter.

This is the police. This is a dystopia.

Good grief, Treelover. That is shocking. And this is supposedly about 'being kind' and 'validating others' rights to be who they are'?

You're right - it really is dystopia.

FarNorth

Let's say I told a grandchild that no-one can change sex, that transgirls are still boys and transboys are still girls.
Would my grandchild be accused of transphobia if they said that in school?
Yet, isn't that the protected belief in the reality of biological sex?
Would I really be expected not to say that to a grandchild, if they brought up the subject?

Obviously, I wouldn't want my grandchild to bully anyone over this and would make clear that they shouldn't do that

This is what I was getting at, FN. The implication throughout this thread is that anyone saying anything (even in private) that is not fully in agreement with the Stonewall training manual is encouraging bullying if a child overhears it.

The suggestion is that schools that teach about 100 genders and the ability to transition are 'right' and anything else is simply a perception, based on intolerance and a desire to 'invalidate' transpeople (whatever that means).

I think that life for teenagers is complicated and confusing enough without adults deciding the rights and wrongs of this sort of thing and making judgements about others' behaviour. Yes, teach tolerance of others, and teach children that it is ok for them to be themselves. Adults should be on guard and ready to squash bullying when we see it (as a parent/grandparent or teacher), but I am not happy with the idea that a topic as sensitive as this one is taught with the assumption that those who disagree with the ideological parts of it are unkind or intolerant.

My granddaughter was bullied because of an invisible illness/disability. We tried to get the school.tobsort it but they never did. She changed schools in the end but it was too late she missed out on so much education.

That is what the over-zealous campaigners have succeeded in doing - they have made shiboleths of the pronouncements of lobbyists, pronouncements based on misunderstandings of not very-well-conducted studies like The RaRE study - which was based on small numbers of individuals but pumped up by publicity to make it seem more significant.

This is what has been said of that study part of which included asking transgender people about their history of suicidal thoughts and attempts.

"The RaRE study was a lottery-funded project set-up by the LGBT charity PACE. The lead academic was Dr Nuno Nodin from the Royal Holloway University of London (RHUL). A number of different aspects relevant to the LGBT community was investigated. One part of this included asking transgender people about their history of suicidal thoughts and attempts.

The study was conducted by questionnaire using a non-probability sampling method. This means that the questionnaire was promoted within the LGBT community and people chose whether or not to fill it in. In total 2078 questionnaires were analysed, however only 120 of these were transgender people, and only 27 of these were under the age of 26 years old. It is only the result from the 27 young trans people that was reported in relation to suicide. Of these 27 young trans people 13 of them reported having attempted suicide at some point in the past. This is where the 48% of all trans youth attempt suicide stat comes from.

We have a number of problems with this study:

1. We don’t believe that the suicide history of just 27 self-selected trans people is sufficiently large for parents to make life-changing decisions for their children.

2. Participants were not randomly selected. This will mean that trans people who have experienced the most difficulties in life may be more likely to fill in the form. This risks artificially increasing the % of participants with a suicide history.

3. We don’t know when these suicide attempts occurred. Some or all may have occurred after social and/or medical transition and so may not reflect the true suicide risk if trans children are not supported to transition.

4. We also are not told if these 13 young trans people consider themselves gay or straight. Other data from the study shows that people who identify as lesbian, gay or bisexual are almost twice as likely to have attempted suicide that those who identify as straight (34% compared to 18%). This data is more robust than the trans data because it includes 289 LGB and 196 straight people. As LGB is clearly a risk factor for attempting suicide then surely we need to know if the trans people were gay or straight. If the majority of the trans people with a suicide history were gay whereas the majority of trans people with no suicide history were straight then this may have skewed the data making it look like a trans-related increase in suicide when actually it more accurately reflects the fact they were gay.

. There is also disturbing evidence that the transgender charity Mermaids has misrepresented the study to make it appear stronger than it really is. This occurred during a presentation at a conference in front of an audience of lawyers, press, NHS representatives and government officials. .

We contacted the lead academic who conducted the research and asked him these questions. He agreed with the limitations of the study that we pointed out. We then asked whether he was aware that his data had been misrepresented by others and presented without making these limitation clear. He agreed it was unfortunate when “research is used by non-scientists in the context of their own agendas” and that he would “continue to clarify the nature and breadth of the RaRE study findings.”
From www.transgendertrend.com/the-suicide-myth/

HannahLoisLuke

I think all this trans phobia stuff has come about since the LBGTQ community became so aggressive themselves. Demanding to use womens toilets, womens prisons. Demanding that their point of view be taught in schools. Demanding to be allowed to compete against biological women in sporting events. When they just lived their lives they were accepted and fitted into the rich and varied tapestry of society but for the more militant that was never enough and we now have a backlash.
Bullying is out of order wherever it occurs though and those schools need to get on top of it.

Not LGB TQ+.

Lesbians, Gays and most bi-sexual people have done none of these things.

I think it’s important that we don’t adhere to the Stonewall agenda of linking them with the trans issues.

Not starting an argument just saying they are completely different groups.

LGB people have tried to separate themselves from trans issues and have been harassed and attacked for wanting to do just that.

I also saw a video of a man being arrested in handcuffs because "Something you posted online made someone anxious."

He was later released without charge.

I heard that recording treelover. It was frightening.

So what would happen if you lived in an area where 99.9% of the residents voted for a particular political party, and just one voted for a different party and during an election campaign had a poster in their window for the party they support?

This PCSO should have been reported Treelover. As well as being an abuse of power and I don't see how there could be anything wrong in having this particular sticker in the window, or that this PCSO had the power to insist on its removal, s/he appears to have been forcing their own personal opinion onto someone else.

I think all this trans phobia stuff has come about since the LBGTQ community became so aggressive themselves. Demanding to use womens toilets, womens prisons. Demanding that their point of view be taught in schools. Demanding to be allowed to compete against biological women in sporting events. When they just lived their lives they were accepted and fitted into the rich and varied tapestry of society but for the more militant that was never enough and we now have a backlash.
Bullying is out of order wherever it occurs though and those schools need to get on top of it.

Ive just seen evidence of very worrying incident of bullying, by a PCSO to a householder (lesbian who lives with her two daughters) because she had a sticker in her window :
'trans-ideology erases women '. This police officer visited the householder, and in a very bullying tone advised her to remove it,because the sticker was upsetting to the public adding that she was ignorant and uninformed and should get herself educated.
Householder was frightened and crying, her daughters intervened and said it was only a faded sticker the police said it was offensive and had to be removed. This is an abuse of power. There is a recording and transcript. here is a little bit:

HOUSEHOLDER: You can’t change sex. It’s impossible to change sex.

PCSO: It’s not change. Okay, it’s how you’re born. It’s how you’re born. Now if a person is born in the wrong body and spends big portion of their life in that wrong body and suffers terribly from all sorts of disorders because they have been born into the wrong body...to allow them to transition to the right body to enable them to feel… be the person that they are, isn’t something that doesn’t exist. It isn’t a choice, just the same as being gay isn’t a choice. Do you understand that being gay is not a choice, yeah?

HOUSEHOLDER: That’s what I’m saying about les, about being lesb..

PCSO: Yeah, so being gay is not a choice. Being trans is not a choice. It’s not a choice. It’s not something you just wake up one day & decide to be. It’s not a choice. It causes distress. It causes suicide. It causes people terrible mental health crises & mental ill health for many many years until they find the courage to be the person that they actually are. It’s not that they want to be. It’s not that they wish to be. It’s that they actually are. Does that make sense? (Silence) Does that make sense?

HOUSEHOLDER: No.

PCSO: It doesn’t make sense. Okay. (inaudible)

DAUGHTER1: Don’t get upset. It’s a sticker, mum. It’s a sticker.

This is the police. This is a dystopia.

Just been catching up with this thread and there are some great insightful posts.

As has been said, singling out a specific group when talking about bullying can elevate that group to a higher status, that bullying someone within that group, is worse than bullying someone who isn't.

I've been horrified quite frankly, to read about what's been happening at your GD's school Mollygoand hope that she's alright .

For teachers and other staff members to feel they cannot properly protect the victims of these bullies, for fear of accusations of being transphobic, is a sorry and frightening state of affairs.

As Martin Luther (not ML King) said. Society is like a drunken man, having fallen off one side of the horse promptly climbs back on and falls off the other side.

This is an example of how attempting to redress the balance, to ensure that a minority group in society is not discriminated against and treated unfairly, can result in the 'rights' of that particular group superseding not just the 'rights' of other minority groups, but the rights of anyone who is not a member of that particular group.

Whatever form bullying takes and for whatever reason victims are singled out, it is wrong.

Let's say I told a grandchild that no-one can change sex, that transgirls are still boys and transboys are still girls.
Would my grandchild be accused of transphobia if they said that in school?
Yet, isn't that the protected belief in the reality of biological sex?
Would I really be expected not to say that to a grandchild, if they brought up the subject?

Obviously, I wouldn't want my grandchild to bully anyone over this and would make clear that they shouldn't do that

Incidentally I’m still waiting for a definition from Glorianny.

Define overly influenced in this situation.

Glorianny, Whatever other response you post, please respond to the question above.

VS
In the examples given by Mollygo, it is worse because the school and teachers are afraid to say that the bully is wrong so they are, in effect, colluding with the bullying.
And it is worse because the reason the scho and staff ‘colluded’ is because of concerns that in protecting non-trans from being bullied, they would be accused of being transphobic.
Yes! I agree.

Any bullying for whatever reason is distressing for the victim, can lead to other issues and needs to be properly dealt with in schools and workplaces.

Teenagers are, whether they realise it or not, vulnerable children and even constant bullying about something like hair colour, teeth, size can lead to anxiety and depression.

Schools should not prioritise dealing with one type of bullying over another although we have seen over the years how one issue may become a popular topic for bullies for a certain period of time.

My children are smart and capable and can make their own minds up
So are they being bullied? If smart, capable children are being bullied then this needs to be stamped on as someone more vulnerable could be caused untold distress.
The school needs to be more pro-active in sorting this out.

Yay! I have to go, son is pulling up for a visit, I need that hug, not seen him for far too long.

Thanks for sharing all

An interesting one that might demonstrate what I mean

Bare in mind this is in primary school

The name Boris Johnson appears unfavourably incredibly often.

A lot of children are all quite emotional and cross with him.

"Boris" has become an insult

Without discussing whether that is right or fair. I keep my personal opinions away from school

It's a demonstration of how public opinion relates to the school playground

Somewhere in this long and challenging thread I came across the phrase 'normalise differences', but now I can't find it, so apologies if the context expanded that to be more acceptable.
I say that because by actually saying 'normalise differences' you are stating that they are NOT normal and that action has to be taken to achieve this.
I suggest you replace 'normalise' with CELEBRATE. That's what makes humanity - every one of us is unique !!

And incidentally, I recently apologised to my red haired elder 45 year old daughter, having come across some discussion about how some "ginger" haired children get called names etc, and said that it had never occurred to me that it might have happened to her in school, and I'd never thought to ask her. She just laughed and said that no one had ever called her names.

I appreciate that it's easy to celebrate red hair - not so easy to celebrate some disabilities, and I salute all parents and carers who have to deal with very challenging issues, day in and day out.

There has ALWAYS been bullying for any reason at schools and workplaces; transphobics, homosexuals etc etc. There will always be bullying, no-one can stop it. It's part of being human: animals also bully other animals. Its nature.

Like I don't agree with daily mail headlines about schools indoctrination of children on trans issues.

My children are smart and capable and can make their own minds up.

Others might teach their children that they can't trust schools to have an unbiased view, which leads to distrust in school, lack of respect and may even sabotage their education

So I find it concerning

VioletSky

I'm not sure how a trans person being a bully is "worse"

In what way is one kind of bullying "worse" than another?

No child should be bullied and many forms of bullying involve sexist or sexual bullying as has been identified in the policy I posted further up

.

In the examples given by Mollygo, it is worse because the school and teachers are afraid to say that the bully is wrong so they are, in effect, colluding with the bullying .