Transphobic Bullying

Actually I dont think you can “teach” acceptance. Most peop,e, including children, react negatively to being authoritarian instruction.

Inculcate isn’t a word much used nowadays but I think it is key.
Children behave with respect, not when they are instructed to do so, but when they understand and accept the value of each person in their community - in this case school.

The sledgehammer approach doesn’t work.

I absolutely deny everything you just said doodledog

I haven't forced anyone to engage with this discussion and I certainly haven't alluded to anyone on it.

This is a subject that genuinely concerns me

Your perception is not my reality

. . . .as some people do not believe acceptance of trans people should be taught in school at all and view it as indoctrination.
Acceptance of transpeople is perfectly possible without agreeing that they have changed sex, and I'm pretty sure you understand that that is the POV of many people on this thread. That sort of word-twisting is very passive-aggressive, and explains why I, for one, do not believe you are either moderate or a fence-sitter.

It seems to be whatever issue is being widely discussed to me, almost a trend.

I remember being at school and it being about sexuality a lot of the time and homophobic insults.

There was a lot of discussion being had in the wider community.

I remember my mum talking about how unnatural and against biology it all was and how humans were programmed ro procreate.

I did not agree

Being a bit Bi, I always said nothing, I didn't need to give her another reason to bully me

I wonder whether the bullies will move on to something else eventually. When my children were at school in the 80s Blue Peter had publicised Joey Deacon's life story and the word "Joey" was instantly picked up by the children at their school and used as an insult for anyone who didn't fit in. The word "Spaz" was used to back it up. I was able to put a stop to my own children using the words but I think it carried on for a couple of years at school.

It’s respect for everyone that needs to be taught and practiced. Singling out one group only adds to the problem in my experience.

Lathyrus

It can only be prevented from being played out in the playground if the whole school culture makes it clear that behaviour of that kind is not acceptable here, in this place.

This needs to come from the top and through the way that all adults interact with children, with each other, with parents and carers. It has to be holistic and without exception. Everybody committed and constantly vigilant not just of what was happening but of their own assumptions and prejudices.

Focusing on one aspect or efforts by one individual will not change a culture that seems to be pervading the school.

I do know what I’m talking about. My school received an excellent grading for this aspect of its work. As the Lead Inspector wrote “If every child could come to this school there would be no more discrimination.”

Just thought I’d boast a little??

Well that's absolutely fantastic, well done!

It's can be quite difficult to go up against wider held views, public and parental opinion. Especially on trans issues as some people do not believe acceptance of trans people should be taught in school at all and view it as indoctrination

I've done that Callistemon and I will pursue it until the end, my daughters have only witnessed these things

But I really want to know if we can be responsible for how we are talking about trans issues in public and in private and acknowledge that might impact what happens on the school playground?

I can see in the situation Mollygo has shared that I would never want to be responsible for any child being bullied ever staying quiet through fears of being called transphobic and will make sure my language in future is careful not to fuel anything that awful.

If I ever join a discussion again in future... possibly or hopefully not

I'm very opinionated for an introvert who hates arguing lol

Well done lathyrus, my service (childrens home) always got good with outstanding features, but never blooming outstanding overall. I think a lot of us on GN work in schools or in childrens services. There was a whole thread once about why teachers etc seemed to be so prevalent on GN.

It can only be prevented from being played out in the playground if the whole school culture makes it clear that behaviour of that kind is not acceptable here, in this place.

This needs to come from the top and through the way that all adults interact with children, with each other, with parents and carers. It has to be holistic and without exception. Everybody committed and constantly vigilant not just of what was happening but of their own assumptions and prejudices.

Focusing on one aspect or efforts by one individual will not change a culture that seems to be pervading the school.

I do know what I’m talking about. My school received an excellent grading for this aspect of its work. As the Lead Inspector wrote “If every child could come to this school there would be no more discrimination.”

Just thought I’d boast a little??

What are your thoughts?

I'd take my concerns to the Head Teacher.
Bullying of any kind is not acceptable. We know it goes on but a responsible HT, staff and Welfare Officers need to be made aware and seen to act.

Mollygo

And worse, it can be the trans who are doing the bullying as at my DGD’s school. Imagine all girls, in skirts or trousers, regulation shirts etc. Now imagine one girl, who chose to go to an all girls’ school, who decides in her first week in Y7, that she’s trans. Despite a strict adherence to school uniform, anyone who misgenders her by using the wrong pronoun which she changes at will is reported for transphobia and initially, punished by staff scared of repercussions.
She collects a group of followers who bully others into joining to keep themselves safe from the bullying. The ringleader sends pornographic material wanted or unwanted to other members of the group, and school says initially that they can do nothing because it’s out of school.
Girls are told they should change their names, get breast binders to prove their allegiance to the group, especially the well developed ones like my DGD, because, “they need to look more like boys”, and ask for drugs to stop their puberty. They are told that if their parents don’t support them in changing, they’re likely to commit suicide.
Any complaints from parents, trying to support their their children who are upset by the trap they have fallen into, bring accusations of transphobia!

Y7 girls are told that if they don’t fancy boys then they’re probably gay or trans or even . . . Asexual!

Would a genuine trans ask to go to a school composed of the sex she appears to deny?
Or was this just too good a chance for a bully to miss?

Mollygo I was questioning your use of the word worse at the beginning of this comment.

I explained that I don't think there is a "worse" when it comes to bullying

Well perhaps if it's about being bullied about gender norms we should start by saying that the concept of gender is really oppressive for all people and we should do our best to eliminate stereotypes around gender so we challenge ideas such as dressing as a woman etc.

VioletSky

I'm not sure how a trans person being a bully is "worse"

In what way is one kind of bullying "worse" than another?

Bullying is bullying, but why is a trans person being a bully worse?

If you can’t understand that from my post, then no further explanation will help you to comprehend what my DGD and others have been through at the hands of this ‘trans’ girl, who as usual with bullies has attracted a small gang of equally nasty girls who like the feeling of power.
Say anything about her and you’re transphobic. Call her out on her actions towards others and you’re transphobic. Complain to the school about the porn, and other things I mentioned, and you’re transphobic. In the current climate of concern about being labelled transphobic, she has it made. The girls who have suffered most are the ones who tried to back out and by attempting to do that, were accused of being . . . Guess what?

This is what I am trying to explain that people aren't understanding.

Children aren't ONLY being bullied for being trans. Children who are not trans are being bullied using anti trans language for not conforming to gender norms or not otherwise going along with whatever the latest fashion is.

Like the uptake of pro brexit bullying I noticed in school and yes in primary school, this is also happening due to the conversations being had publicly and privately about trans issues.

Which is why I ask what we can do to prevent wider world issues being played out on school playgrounds

I didn't ask you to explain extreme views - just to give an example. I am a bit shocked, TBH, and many of the things you describe would need to be reported under Prevent. I believe it is actually against the law not to do so. If these sort of things are going on in your school you really have to act.

It's interesting that you see yourself as a fence-sitter, as I most definitely don't see it like that. That shows how difficult it can be to see oneself as others see us, and how we should really only try to influence our own children. Our views of ourselves aren't necessarily the most widely held ones, are they? Most people see themselves as moderate with anyone disagreeing as less so. A bit like being rich, or an alcoholic .

This thread is somewhat confusing; it's veered between transgender bullying and harrassment in schools, general bullying in schools and then masculine appearing women and butch lesbians in toilets who shouldn't be in schools in the first place. Which is the real issue that the OP wants to discuss please?

Excellent post @ 19.31 Lathyrus, my GC are at 2 schools and nothing of this sort has arisen in the last 6 years. Sounds as though the school vs is at has some serious bullying issues that OFSTED should probably be involved in.

That's not good enough Elegran and it should be dealt with.

Whatever, demographic, bullies exist in all of them.

The equality act doesn't place any one above the other and that is as it should be

As you've posted Lathyrus "If trans pupils are being bullied to this extent you can be sure that a large number of other groups and individuals are also being bullied over perceived differences".

I'm not sure what's to be gained by having a thread that appears to separate transphobic bullying from other forms of bullying. Bullying is bullying whatever form it takes and is an issue that needs to be dealt with swiftly and decisively where ever it is found.

As I have said and shown in government policy, it is well recognised that the playground reflects wider issues in society.

That seems an individual responsibility when talking about issues to me

So that's why asked what individuals can do about that

VioletSky

I'm not sure how a trans person being a bully is "worse"

In what way is one kind of bullying "worse" than another?

No child should be bullied and many forms of bullying involve sexist or sexual bullying as has been identified in the policy I posted further up

Perhaps because we are so often being told that trans people are the most bullied people around - so it is proportionately more difficult to get it accepted that in some of these school cases the bullying is by a trans person (or at any rate, on behalf of transitioning), not aimed against one of them.

Doodledog

Lathyrus

I’m interestedly to know what the school has done about the many incidences that Violetsky has reported.

If transpupils are being bullied to this extent you can be sure that a large number of other groups and individuals are also being bullied over perceived differences.

Bullying to this extent is an issue of whole school culture and should be tackled as such by all members of staff and for all pupils.

Absolutely. It's not my place to say what VS should do, (although she did ask), but one thing would be to follow my suggestion upthread and talk to the Head or the Governors before the media get onto it. It is for them to sort out really.

Yes, if I worked in a school where bullying was so rife I would be raising the issue with the Governors.

It’s not something that an individual can tackle on their own.

I didn't know I needed to explain an extreme view

I mean any person who has beliefs or behaviour that would go against, the equality act for an example and what is deemed normal and acceptable behaviour...

Like anyone issuing death threats be they trans or otherwise I would categorise as extreme

Anyone challenging innocent toilet uses and hurling abuse based on their appearance I would categorise as extreme in views

Holding beliefs or behaviours that lead to bullying (verbal or physical) while believing themselves to be right and justified in approach I would categorise as extreme views

I always see myself as a bit of a fence sitter in the trans debates seeing issues and problems and not being able to think of any acceptable means to move forward according to conversations had... I see extreme views coming from either side and it is all not acceptable

The Head and the Governors, not the media .

Lathyrus

I’m interestedly to know what the school has done about the many incidences that Violetsky has reported.

If transpupils are being bullied to this extent you can be sure that a large number of other groups and individuals are also being bullied over perceived differences.

Bullying to this extent is an issue of whole school culture and should be tackled as such by all members of staff and for all pupils.

Absolutely. It's not my place to say what VS should do, (although she did ask), but one thing would be to follow my suggestion upthread and talk to the Head or the Governors before the media get onto it. It is for them to sort out really.