Transphobic Bullying

Er, where did I say teenagers are following GN?

GN is reflected in the wider media where teenagers see the damage being caused by TRA and TaF and unfortunately, being teenagers some see that as a cause to follow.

Thus they add to the damage being caused to those trans who have never and do not wish to cause harm to females.
Also they cause harm to gay and lesbian people, who, having worked hard for acceptance, without needing to lie or cheat, have been caught up in the maelstrom of harm done by Stonewall, TRA and even some TaF.

if Mollygo thinks I'm responsible for spreading fear and hatred towards trans people as a "TRA" which I still don't know what that means or how I am doing that....

Then that is very one sided

But I am very aware that some people can't take any personl responsibility and some people aren't willing to challenge someone who agrees with them on that sort of thing

Which is how we end up so polarised and how children end up bullied for not conforming to gender norms

I dont believe in control of jokes/humour so I would have no problem with jokes about being gender critical.

Or at least showed some………

Mollygo

*So those who are out there spreading fear and hatred towards trans people are actually damaging the cause*

We have been saying that throughout these, and other threads.

those who are out there spreading fear and hatred towards trans people

In other words

-the TRA who threaten people like JKR and other less famous women for speaking a biological truth, in order to protect females whose safety is threatened by those who claim to change sex and use that to harm females.

-the TW who insist that they have the right to be in female safe spaces even though they are male,

-the TW who have stated that they don’t believe females have the right to ask for a female counsellor or nurse in sensitive situations.

-the TW cheats who have stolen medals and made females afraid to protest at medal chances being stolen from them

Those who are out there spreading fear and hatred towards trans people are not posters on here, who have never said that all trans are like that,
but the TRA and the TaF who do do all those things mentioned above, which reflects badly on all trans and does spread fear about all trans.

Yup, it did occur to me as I washed up that an enormous step forward in the acceptance of trans individuals could be made if trans activists stopped threatening people with violence and death.

Or at showed someone regret for the traumas and distress they have inflicted on others.

Who knows what that might achieve.

I don't do any of those things either. Why would I?

Mollygo

I don't know how many times I have ro say that teenagers aren't following gransnet or that I'm talking about the wider media

I have no idea what you guys are saying elsewhere so I'm not judging

When I talk bout personal responsibility, I include myself

O no I'm not advocating for hormones for children or binders

No I'm not sharing headlines or anything attacking gender critical beliefs

I'm not laughing jokes or insults towards gender critical people

I'm discussing things in a rational thoughtful, non emotional way and looking for a sensible way forwards

I'm taking personal responsibility because that is all I can do

What can you do?

Its not a slur to say short hair doesnt make you a man, it's not a slur to say gender is oppressive, etc.

Yes please doodledog

OK not really.

Or more seriously, just helping me keep the thread on topic and acknowledging that this is not the appropriate place to push a gender critical agenda

We will leave aside insulting my person without clear understanding of motives and my feminism without clear understanding of its principles lol

There aren't many pages left

We are doing better than usual after a shaky start

I'm not asking anyone to give up their beliefs

Just asking people to also respect mine

And to think about, how we all take personal responsibility.. this could be:

What headlines we share

What language we use

What comments we laugh at

What we agree with

What we ignore

I think we could try to emulate that in places teenagers are or do go

So those who are out there spreading fear and hatred towards trans people are actually damaging the cause

We have been saying that throughout these, and other threads.

those who are out there spreading fear and hatred towards trans people

In other words

-the TRA who threaten people like JKR and other less famous women for speaking a biological truth, in order to protect females whose safety is threatened by those who claim to change sex and use that to harm females.

-the TW who insist that they have the right to be in female safe spaces even though they are male,

-the TW who have stated that they don’t believe females have the right to ask for a female counsellor or nurse in sensitive situations.

-the TW cheats who have stolen medals and made females afraid to protest at medal chances being stolen from them

Those who are out there spreading fear and hatred towards trans people are not posters on here, who have never said that all trans are like that,
but the TRA and the TaF who do do all those things mentioned above, which reflects badly on all trans and does spread fear about all trans.

Galaxy

In the same way that racism is deeply damaging, we dont say oh well but it's so pervasive we cant do anything about it, we challenge it. So I am going to keep challenging the deep regressive sexism of gender.

So do you think that challenging these things can be done in uch a way that tran people aren't blamed and deserving of very public vile slurs and nastiness that makes its way ro the playground?

My eldest son tell me that, a lot of people came ro uni with some ideas and that mot of them are now very liberal, perhaps from getting away from a different sphere of influence.

VioletSky

Galaxy

I am not taking on anyone . I am saying that women can have short hair and men can wear make up and that gender is oppressive and damaging for men and women.

Then you agree what is happening is deeply concerning Then?

Dear God!

Do we have to write it in blood?

Galaxy

I am not taking on anyone . I am saying that women can have short hair and men can wear make up and that gender is oppressive and damaging for men and women.

Then you agree what is happening is deeply concerning Then?

In the same way that racism is deeply damaging, we dont say oh well but it's so pervasive we cant do anything about it, we challenge it. So I am going to keep challenging the deep regressive sexism of gender.

Mollygo

VS you say
Because to me, and I'm just being honest...

Is that yet another implication that those who disagree with you are not being honest?

So far, those who disagree with you or with Glorianny (or tri) have been accused of so many things that they don’t do, or haven’t done with regard to trans people that I’m finding it hard to keep up.
I was going to go back and see if clarification if any of the points I asked about had been forthcoming but it’s so unlikely . . .

What many things have I accused you of Molly?

Or do you not mean me?

In which case, what do you want from me?

Glorianny

Mollygo

Glorianny

Here's a few of them Mollygo Get used to them. Flat chested, short haired, tall girls are going to get called "trans"

By whom?

The people who were in the OP. Girls who bully other girls. As I said the real damage will be for them. They will either conform and have a real "girly" look or be treated to trans abuse. I suppose you will blame transwomen for that as well, although it is obviously the result of the trans abuse and blaming all trans people for the deeds of very few.

Hang on a minute.

What I and others have been saying since what feels like the dawn of time is that young people either conform to stereotypes (male or female) or be assumed to be trans. That is at the crux of gender criticism. You can be female and follow 'male' gender norms and vice versa, without attempting to change sex. Everything to do with so-called 'gender' is sexist and conformist, but we were moving away from that until the trans lobby came along to insist that girly boys and mannish girls are 'in the wrong body' instead of just non-conformist.

As for blaming transwomen, no - I am not doing that. I blame those who say that TWAW on their own say so, and insist on their then being treated as such, regardless of how actual women feel about it. I happen to think that it is a lucrative bandwagon for people selling training and certificates of diversity, but I don't blame transwomen for that, either. I blame the 'allies' and the profiteers, and the hangers on who can't just let people be who they want to be.

I am not taking on anyone . I am saying that women can have short hair and men can wear make up and that gender is oppressive and damaging for men and women.

Vs read my comment again.

Galaxy

You are going to have to take on a multitude of women who place an importance in looking "feminine"

Because while there are gender norms you can't really blame trans people for that and trying to emulate literally almost everyone.

And you also need to deal with the fact, that it is those who are challenging gender norms being bullied as trans when they are not

So the very ideals that you state cause the trans issues that are also perpetuating bullying

Now if you reason out why that is happening... then the root is sexism

So those who are out there spreading fear and hatred towards trans people are actually damaging the cause

Yes so stop saying dress like a woman and feel like a woman and you wont reinforce those stereotypes. Its gender that's enforcing those stereotypes which is why I wont embrace it.
Gender is oppressive as we have been saying.

Again Mollygo

Can you please tell me what i am accusing people of?

Apart from changing the topic of the thread?

Galaxy

Well no Glorianny it's to do with the fact that people have associated being a woman with clothes or make up. Being a woman is none of those things and we should never pretended it was. So women can have short hair and play football, none of that means they are men, gender critical people have been saying this forever.

Perhaps they have Galaxy but as with everything things have moved on and times change. If you really can't see how girls will find themselves made to comply with certain standards in order to prove that they are not trans or be strong enough to withstand the name calling then I'm sorry because it seems perfectly clear to me. As for footballers, look at the England team, not one of them has short hair so even for them the image applies.

Vs read my comment again.

Well no Glorianny it's to do with the fact that people have associated being a woman with clothes or make up. Being a woman is none of those things and we should never pretended it was. So women can have short hair and play football, none of that means they are men, gender critical people have been saying this forever.

Mollygo

Rrad my comment again