So, who votes for a government that improves the lives of Bankers, and ensures the excessive profits of energy companies, but needs all the "levelling up" money to pay for the holes in Brexit?

It would be good to hear why the only way that seems to be under consideration to "grow the economy" is through paying people more in financial services. I wonder why this would be. It seems a very limited and short-term action and certainly will not help with levelling-up. That money has basically been spent already filling Brexit holes.

The claim that those who criticise the wealth gap in the U.K. are jealous and always blame the rich are echoing the Tories who have always used it as an excuse to avoid introducing greater equity via the tax system.

It is a poor argument and one that simply doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.

Societies who have greater equality, as the U.K. did post-war WW11 are proven to be less divisive, more cohesive and successful.

Interesting to read that you have worked closely with money laundering GSM

Germanshepherdsmum

All the usual suspects, GG. Those who don’t have it always blame those who do.

My goodness that is a massive assumption. I am sure that some undoubtedly have quite a lot of it, but choose not to broadcast the fact.

The only way that removing the cap benefits those outside the sector is by growing the economy by enabling the sector to be more competitive and increasing tax revenue if bonuses are taken in cash - you can’t dodge PAYE. Given the way bank shares have performed during the last few years, share options aren’t particularly attractive.

I is

Germanshepherdsmum

There seems to be a perception that bankers don’t pay tax on their bonuses. They do, and they are subject to the PAYE system as they are employees, not self-employed.

I have already said, WWM, that regulations affecting the financial sector have been considerably tightened up since the crash.

I the paying tax the whole point. You know they will find ways to pay as little as possible - who wouldn't if the government allows. However, at the same time that same government is holding down lower wages/salaries. I would guess that would rub salt into the wounds for most.

You obviously know little about the financial services sector from personal experience, Cossy. I speak from personal experience. Try calculating the amount of tax and NI which will be paid on bonuses, for a start. As I have already said, if the bankers don’t get paid their bonuses the money is just going to stay in the coffers of the banks. What good will that do anyone (except perhaps the likes of me who hold bank shares)?

I’m sure you would consider that my earnings were immoral too. But there was a time in my life when I had to choose between feeding my son and feeding myself. Don’t assume that everyone who is or has been a ‘fat cat’ knows nothing of what it’s like to struggle.

What's the issue with being a champagne socialist? Doesn't everybody deserve champagne?

I'm afraid you'll find that went out with the ark as far as insults go.

4allweknow

Well, the Tories will be doing 3 people I know a big favour with their latest gesture. They work i tge financial sector based in London but are never there. All have Caymen Islands bank accounts, go there intermittently only for personal reasons. Not one Conservative party supporter, indeed they are staunch labour.

Champagne socialists then.

As much as it is unpalatable to some, the truth is that money makes the world go round always has and always will.

London is still in second position regarding Financial Capitals of the world.

Funny you should say that Grantanow. I hold a lot of bank shares so you would think I would be arguing against lifting the bonus cap. But I’m not, am I?

You talk about investment - if ‘fat cat salaries’ weren’t paid how would you attract talent and investment?

Germanshepherdsmum

It seems that some posters are unaware of the importance of our financial services industry to our economy.

Dear Getmanshepherdsmum

Patronising in the extreme ! Once our London Financial Services were highly thought of and we were indeed leading the world !

Now, we are known more for money laundering and fiscal irresponsibility, even higher bankers bonuses will benefit no-one other than those in the top 5% of earners, the bonus cap is hardly punitive, it’s twice the annual salary of said banking employee. At a time when people can barely keep pace with inflation, choose between heating and eating and those who really keep this country going, teachers, nurses, care workers, police are all underpaid and in short supply I know who I support ! Greedy bankers whose additional bonuses won’t go back into the economy by spending, rather will be invested, probably abroad. Personally I think it’s utterly immoral when most hard working people are struggling. I’d rather never eat again than vote for any Tory !

'To make the rich worker harder, we pay them more. To make the poor work harder, we pay them less

This is so true. Remember Therese Coffey claiming people could make up the £20 uplift when it was removed from universal credit by working ‘a couple of hours extra’.
It would be laughable were it not so cruel.

Well, the Tories will be doing 3 people I know a big favour with their latest gesture. They work i tge financial sector based in London but are never there. All have Caymen Islands bank accounts, go there intermittently only for personal reasons. Not one Conservative party supporter, indeed they are staunch labour.

Germanshepherdsmum

What difference does it make to anyone but the bankers Grantanow? Do you think that the bonus money would magically be given to the poor instead? It’s not going to happen. There is an inherent dislike of people who have money in this country. Anyone who earns a high salary is called a fat cat. Jealousy, pure and simple.

This is nonsense. If the banks were limited in what they could pay bankers they would have to return the profits to shareholders which would include pension funds paying out to former employees in the wider economy or invest in the business. One of the weaknesses of UK business is underinvestment. Also, in my opinion we need a more equitable society and fat cat salaries are a source of social disharmony. It's not jealousy, it's a matter trying to get to a society in which everyone benefits.

Inevitably when a thread is about the poorest in society someone comes along and blames the wealthiest.

It is the system which is at fault, there will always be wealth, and as long as those who earn pay their legal taxes to the appropriate authorities I cannot see anything wrong with that.

The U.K. has a benefit system which should act as a safety net for those in need, whether it always works is doubtful we have links to examples here where it hasn’t.

Increase the minimum wage, good idea. Be prepared for some small enterprises to go to the metaphorical wall and prices to increase. It is a vicious circle.

GrannyGravy13

volver

No. There are three threads running on GN N&P that you think are blaming the wealthy for all the ills in society because there are certain people with money who have chips on their shoulders and think everyone is blaming them. And seem to have no understanding of what an equitable society means or that it isn't love of money that drives most of us.

All those rich people, we don't give them a chance and we're nasty, jealous oiks, aren't we?

Haven’t seen any jealous oiks volver just posters playing the blame game without offering any solutions.

Well, b*gger me. I try to start a thread which deliberately didn't play the blame game and you immediately leapt in as if it did.
Can't win, can I.

Thank you Prentice”

Germansheperdsmum you clearly have the most knowledge on this subject than others on this thread.
I wonder if most bankers will like the idea of no caps on bonuses if it happens? Salaries are now so much higher than in the past for them, to take into account no really high bonuses coming their way, that in the past 8? Years they do not have to strive quite so hard or rely on their own performance.
I believe that the idea of no caps is to make our financial industry more attractive to work in, as Amsterdam has taken a lot of the business since we left the EU.This no caps idea will make the UK more competitive for the future.
It is a pleasure to read your calm and reasoned comments on this matter.

I wither in the face of such developed and mature arguments.

Or maybe not.

Perish the thought that anyone should be rich and happy.

Jeezy peeps, is being happy another one to add to the long list of crimes on GN ?

Keep trying if you like Urmstongran. It's not going to work any more.