US & UK are poor societies with some very rich people.

GrannyGravy13

I am all for a safety net for those who are unable to work for whatever reason. I think that is what all societies should provide.

Just fed up with the continuous threads, berating the rich and blaming them for all the worlds ills.

You have summed up my feelings perfectly GG.

GrannyGravy13

I am all for a safety net for those who are unable to work for whatever reason. I think that is what all societies should provide.

Just fed up with the continuous threads, berating the rich and blaming them for all the worlds ills.

In 2022, do you know how people with severe disabilities without mental capacity are supported in this country via the benefits system? do you know what benefits they have to claim and what statistics they make up?

MissAdventure

The dispatches programme I watched also featured people who had taken their own lives, due to the system failing them and their money being stopped.
I now have a lot more understanding of how this could happen, and much more empathy for these people.

I watched the dispatches programme, only someone without a heart could fail to be moved.

It is the system that is at fault, not those who have been successful in their careers.

So what’s your solution to her situation Glorianny? In years gone by she would probably have been committed to an asylum where she would have been fed. Do you want to see a return to that sort of provision? It’s easy to trot out the old cliché of the system being ‘broken’. It’s easy to criticise but make no constructive suggestions. Of course the system is based on a requirement for claimants to provide information, and there is help with that if people will engage.

Germanshepherdsmum

But you are knocking the wealthy Maizie. You are advocating redistribution of wealth and mocking charity.

Did you read Burn-Murdoch's thread?

Do you understand what it was about?

I'm not 'mocking charity'. I'm saying that it shouldn't be a substitute for society enabling all its members to achieve a decent standard of living.

sorry it was volver who linked to it.

I am all for a safety net for those who are unable to work for whatever reason. I think that is what all societies should provide.

Just fed up with the continuous threads, berating the rich and blaming them for all the worlds ills.

The dispatches programme I watched also featured people who had taken their own lives, due to the system failing them and their money being stopped.
I now have a lot more understanding of how this could happen, and much more empathy for these people.

ok other links

www.theguardian.com/society/2020/jan/28/disabled-man-starved-to-death-after-dwp-stopped-his-benefits

www.theguardian.com/society/2021/mar/04/family-of-man-who-starved-to-death-after-benefits-cut-loses-case-against-dwp

foodfoundation.org.uk/initiatives/food-insecurity-tracking

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/woman-in-her-90s-starves-to-death-in-first-case-for-decades-z2zsc0dqx

www.theguardian.com/society/2018/feb/05/figures-show-rise-in-malnutrition-deaths-in-england-and-wales

www.independent.co.uk/news/health/vulnerable-woman-detained-hospital-starved-b1992329.html

www.theguardian.com/society/2014/feb/28/man-starved-to-death-after-benefits-cut

I suggest some of you have a good read of the disability news site, that growstuff has linked to rather than making excuses. The rights being taken off people with disabilities is nothing short of criminal. We can't just stand back and watch

I think a big part of the problem is business owners paying their employees as little as possible. If they paid more of the profits in wages instead of keeping so much for themselves, the wealth would be more fairly distributed.
Those in the nursing profession, for instance, should get paid far more than they do. I know that is the fault of the government, not a private business, but if nurses were better valued and properly paid, it would attract more people to choose the NHS as a career.

How do you propose to redistribute the wealthy folks earned income?

Confiscate a percentage of their bank balance and hold a lottery for the poorest in society to see who gets a bit?

GrannyGravy13

MaizieD

Germanshepherdsmum

But, MissA, this woman had a mother.

I agree, Norah. A lot of wealthy people do good with their money but don’t shout about it.

How very Victorian of you, GSM.

In a wealthy country nobody should have to rely on wealthy people's charity for their basic sustenance.

Are you suggesting that those who can and do charitable work and donate vast sums of their own money shouldn’t MaizieD ?

Some consider it a moral duty to give back to society, and calling them Victorian by way if an insult is not very charitable of you.

Why is it that a serious thread about wealth distribution turns into a 'defend the wealthy' thread?

No-one in a supposedly wealthy country should have to depend on charity for their existence.

Germanshepherdsmum

Not sure what your point is volver. The woman had money but wouldn’t spend it on food or bills. We will never know what caused the problems with her benefits but it’s possible that, given her mental health issues, she didn’t engage with the DWP to provide the necessary information.

Oh I see it's her own fault because she had mental health problems and "didn't engage" what a ridiculous argument. All the agencies involved let this women down. And she died because an inadequately funded system, which is based on the ability to fill in forms, argue and persevere, and not on need, completely failed her. The system is completely broken.
We no longer have a society which looks after the needs of the weakest and most vulnerable and of course people are dying because of this.

But you are knocking the wealthy Maizie. You are advocating redistribution of wealth and mocking charity.

As long as those earning money pay the appropriate taxes I have not got a problem with wealth.

See my response to Aveline above.

MaizieD

Germanshepherdsmum

But, MissA, this woman had a mother.

I agree, Norah. A lot of wealthy people do good with their money but don’t shout about it.

How very Victorian of you, GSM.

In a wealthy country nobody should have to rely on wealthy people's charity for their basic sustenance.

Are you suggesting that those who can and do charitable work and donate vast sums of their own money shouldn’t MaizieD ?

Some consider it a moral duty to give back to society, and calling them Victorian by way if an insult is not very charitable of you.

So giving to charity is Victorian? Well I’m happy to be Victorian then. Better just to sit on your money and watch it grow until the State confiscates it for redistribution perhaps.

Aveline

I have no problem with some people being very wealthy as long as they pay the correct rate and amount of tax thus contributing to the running of the country with all that that involves including benefits and health care.

I think you are completely missing the point of this and Burn-Murdoch's thread.

We're not talking about 'people being wealthy'. It's not a 'knock the wealthy' thread. We're talking about the distribution of wealth and its effects on living standards across the whole country.

Ideally, certain standards should be kept up for the poorest people, but those seem to be slipping backwards.

As long as those earning money pay the appropriate taxes I have not got a problem with wealth.

There does need to be a conversation regarding raising the minimum wage to what is being called a living wage. As I understand it this could push up prices of food and goods and increase inflation.

It should not be allowed for employers to pay so little that their employees need to get a top up via benefits. This is an area that definitely needs examining.

Germanshepherdsmum

But, MissA, this woman had a mother.

I agree, Norah. A lot of wealthy people do good with their money but don’t shout about it.

How very Victorian of you, GSM.

In a wealthy country nobody should have to rely on wealthy people's charity for their basic sustenance.

I have no problem with some people being very wealthy as long as they pay the correct rate and amount of tax thus contributing to the running of the country with all that that involves including benefits and health care.

I watched a dispatches video of a man who starved slowly to death in an unheated flat, due to him not responding to the dwp and them eventually stopping his money.

nanna8

I’m not sure you could compare the UK,or Australia, come to that, with some very poor countries. Not many would die of starvation in either country because there is a welfare system.Certainly not as visible as it is in some of the poorer Asian and African countries ( which certainly also contain extremely rich people and don’t share their wealth)

Did you read the thread, nanna8?

Not getting at you,you just happen to be the person who made a comment which others might make as well, but this unwillingness to believe evidence, which commentators have spent time in gathering and presenting, is part of our problem.

Maybe I should spend some time copying and pasting some relevant parts of it, but it really needs to be read to appreciate the graphs that accompany it.

But, MissA, this woman had a mother.

I agree, Norah. A lot of wealthy people do good with their money but don’t shout about it.