Obesity is just poor decision-making!

Reading icanhandthemback's post just now, perhaps what people who want/need to lose weight need more than advice or strictures about food, is information about increasing their self-esteem or health-finding motivation.

You can't get fat on granola if you don't eat too much. You can't get fat on anything if you don't eat too much.

I was at Sainsbury's a few days ago. We normally have overnight oats or porridge or a slice of toast and almond butter, but I thought I'd get some decent fruit and nut muesli because we have a visitor. It took me a while to find it because half the aisle was filled with dozens of different varieties of granola, all high in sugar and oils. Some them with chocolate praline pieces and other sweet stuff. I'm sure it tastes lovely and it's promoted as being full of oats and fruity goodness. No wonder everyone's so fat.

I'm not advocating sugary foods, icanhandthemback, but I do think that artificial sweeteners are not the way to go.
Perhaps the manufacturers of food and drink and the government need to have a proper conversation with all those who have carried out extensive research.

I know how hard it must be, a relative and a friend have T1 diabetes and we meet for meals out sometimes. They do seem to have a gadget to check on their blood sugar levels, neither seems overweight either.

icanhandthemback you have described very eloquently your situation ?

?? for your relatives

Eating sugary foods will, in the long term, will kill me as a Diabetic. Everyday is a struggle to eat the "right" thing, to stick to play, etc. My Aunt and mother are diabetics. One is receiving dialysis with kidney failure but judging from her health is starting to have other organ failure. The other is on the verge of kidney failure and has vascular dementia which is linked to diabetes. Even though I know this and hate watching them suffer, I still have times where my self control deserts me.
I know that my diet, my weight and my exercise levels all contribute to my longevity but it is really hard to keep it going even though I desperately don't want a long painful death. If all this doesn't tell you that it is far more complicated than the Government telling you what do eat then I don't know what can persuade you. It is so complex but one thing I do know, people telling me I am greedy, I am fat, etc just pushes my buttons to eat more of the wrong foods. I don't need telling, I am already full of anxiety about what is likely to befall me.

Pittcity

The sugar tax doesn't work, same as the rise in taxes for cigarettes and alcohol. People will still buy if they want it.
I am happy that the sugar tax is going as I can't tolerate the toxic artificial sweeteners that have taken it's place.

I live in a city centre and we have no butchers, greengrocers, bakers or fishmongers other than occasional market stalls and supermarkets.

And now Truss is planning to scrap tax on sugary foods

I can't say I'll be sorry to see the back of that, too. I agree with Pittcity that artificial sweeteners come with their own problems and are a ticking time bomb.

How will it be possible to buy fresh food if all the farm land is being bought up?
Which it already has been. Especially in Holland.

Actually, I can see both sides of this argument and think that both the opposite poles have a point.

However, one thing 70 years on this earth has taught me is that
TELLING people what to d, or not to do. has only a limited effect.

Basically no adult will change their lifestyle or attitudes unless they want to, and even if we do want to, it can be hard to do so.

Saying, or hinting, that it is someone's own fault if they are obese, or anything else, is not going to help.

What might just help are the following:
Differentiate VAT, so that soft drinks, sweets, fast food, chocolate, alchohol, biscuits, cakes and anything else that is only good for us in moderation costs more to buy than greengroceries, milk and other staple and healthy foodstuffs.

TEACH SCHOOL CHILDEN TO COOK! all children, not just as in our schooldays those (girls) who were deemed "too stupid" to learn Latin in secondary school.

Start teaching cookery in Primary school - this can be done quite safely by starting with things like sandwiches, salads and preparing fruit. Older children can make a warm dish for school meals, and everyone eats what the classes having cookery in the forenoon prepare, supplemented by the food a paid adult staff prepares.

Yes, it will mean re-organizing the school day, but it amounts to criminal negligence teaching children all the things we do for well in advance of 10 years "to prepare them for adult life" and letting them leave school unable to cook and to put together a healthy and economical diet for themselves, and the families we fondly vizualise them having.

This would ensure that the next generation can cook and know how to live healthily. If they then choose not to, it is their business.

Evening classes in basic cookery for those adults who cannot cook and would like to learn would help too. I know there are some, but are there enough?

Urmstongran

And the trend amongst tubby young ones banging on about ‘body positivity’ doesn’t help.

Would you rather young people were shamed for their bodies? Dear god, do you not think they're under enough pressure with social media etc these days, contributing to problems such as anorexia? I thought we were finally moving from fat shaming. Judging by this thread, it seems not.

The French have also only had their energy capped at 4%

We have just returned from Provence and it was noticeable that there were very few obese people in comparison to the U.K. Yet the French love their food, two hour lunches are common. We also noted that there were very few fast food outlets, instead the markets were full of beautiful fresh fruit and veg, cheese, meat and fish. The French take a pride in their cuisine but cooking skills are sadly lacking here and it is far too easy to buy a burger or a ready meal. Our children need to be educated in how to cook fresh food from scratch.

The sugar tax doesn't work, same as the rise in taxes for cigarettes and alcohol. People will still buy if they want it.
I am happy that the sugar tax is going as I can't tolerate the toxic artificial sweeteners that have taken it's place.

I live in a city centre and we have no butchers, greengrocers, bakers or fishmongers other than occasional market stalls and supermarkets.

Firstly, they give out tinned foods as they keep. If you have had to pay a bus fare to get to the food bank, you want food that will be fine in 5 days time. Tinned fish/veg can be made into multiple meals with the pasta. Tinned puddings give c alories when meals are small.

Our food bank is also a community fridge, so fresh food is donated by the local co-op warehouse and it is open to the general public and sales/donations from the fridge go towards buying stuff for the foodbank. Things like large sacks of onions, potatoes, carrots, flour, rice that are divided into smaller bags. The food bank parcels do contain fresh food when it is available too.

Unfortunately we have a situation where I live where people cannot access medical continence products so as well as trying to fulfill that need whilst waiting for medical appointments, they are also signposting people to other services where appropriate.

Don't get me started on feminine hygiene

I live in an affluent area

It was, I think, Theresa May that stopped liaising with Jamie Oliver about healthy eating for children. And now Truss is planning to scrap tax on sugary foods. Which is, of course, nothing to do with any government links to brexit supporting Tate and Lyle.. I do remember, many years ago looking at obesity rates in America and realising that this country always eventually follows them. I’ve struggled with my weight throughout my life so I do sympathise with people for being overweight and wish I had understood more about healthy eating when I was young.

Lathyrus

I suppose it’s to do with the food bank storing it, Sago.

Nothing needs less cooking than salad, does it? But it doesn’t keep☹️

I agree, that’s not an appealing diet. I wonder if food banks could be organised differently?

On another note, I was lunching with slim friend who was tucking into her steak and salad and said why do I eat less than you but am fatter. And she said because you make bad choices.
It’s true?

Salad is not going to be the meal of choice for a single parent and a child.
It’s not particularly filling or nutritious and let’s face it how many children like salad?
Unfortunately if you have a poor diet you just crave more of the bad foods.

Therefore but the grace of God go I.

I do a food bank shop weekly, I follow a well researched list, we are asked not to deviate.
Here’s some of the the list; Tinned meat, tinned, fish, pasta, pasta sauce,tinned veg, jam, tinned puddings,biscuits,UHT milk,cereals.

It doesn't sound that appealing, no, but always add in tins of vegetables and tinned fruit in juice; not ideal but better than no fruit or vegetables at all.

Medical research is also finding genetic reasons why some people gain more weight than others.

Yes, it is more recognised now that there are valid reasons why some people gain weight easily, others with a similar lifestyle stay thin.

Whitewavemark2

Any dietician and scientist would tell you that our relationship to food is far more complicated.

They do not yet understand it.

It's not known as comfort eating for nothing.

If you're feeling down, not depressed in the clinical term but just stressed, unable to cope, it's not easy to cook a nourishing meal out of cheap vegetables, to source ingredients.
Not to mention the price of fuel to cook.

It's 50p for a packet of custard cream or 60p for a whole cucumber, which is going to fill you up more if that is all you have in your pocket for the rest of the day?
And there's no comfort in eating a cucumber even if it is better for you. The biscuits are a quick fix too.

Obesity derives from many factors, some beyond individual control such as family genetics. But personal choice of food is an important factor for some and Truss's intention to weaken controls on junk is a bad idea. The first responsibility of any government is to protect it's citizens from harm and the Tories' scheme will not achieve that in respect of health.

I suppose it’s to do with the food bank storing it, Sago.

Nothing needs less cooking than salad, does it? But it doesn’t keep☹️

I agree, that’s not an appealing diet. I wonder if food banks could be organised differently?

On another note, I was lunching with slim friend who was tucking into her steak and salad and said why do I eat less than you but am fatter. And she said because you make bad choices.
It’s true?

Sorry to be a pain in the arse this morning but the majority of people who need gastric band surgery have mental health conditions that create problematic behaviour around food and eating disorders

onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/erv.2397

Abstract
Accumulating evidence suggests that bariatric surgery candidates are likely to present with eating disorders (EDs) and/or problematic eating behaviours (EBs), and research suggests that these problems may persist or develop after bariatric surgery. While there is growing evidence indicating that EDs and EBs may impact bariatric surgery outcomes, the definitions and assessment methods used lack consensus, and findings have been mixed. The aims of this paper were (1) to summarize the existing literature on pre-operative and post-operative EDs and problematic EBs; (2) to discuss the terms, definitions and assessment measures used across studies; and (3) to consider the extent to which the presence of these problems impact surgery outcomes. We highlight the importance of investigators utilizing consistent definitions and assessment methodologies across studies. © 2015 The Authors. European Eating Disorders Review published by Eating Disorders Association and John Wiley & Sons Ltd.

If you google there is loads of evidence to support this

Where do greengrocers and butchers live curtaintwitcher we don’t have any in our middle sized town There is one greengrocer recently opened in the town centre but no butchers at all
The part of the town I live in is a small area off the main town centre it used to be a village in its own right but joined up many many decades ago and a 20 minute walk from the main high street This small area used to have four butchers, two fishmongers, and at least four greengrocers none at all now it had five banks and a post offfice all gone BUT there are numerous small cafes ,ice cream kiosks 2 fish and chip shops 2 Chinese takeaways and an Indian restaurant, a kebab shop a pizza parlour and a KFC
??‍♂️??‍♂️??‍♂️

I’d want to pop a bottle of wine in with that list Sago. Life is miserable enough for some who are struggling. Bring on the treats! Mind you ‘rules are rules’ I suppose.

I do a weekly shop for ourselves, lots of fresh fruit, veg,fish etc.
I make all my own bread even my own butter and we don’t eat processed foods.
I spend around £80 a week for two people.
We have wealth, education and time on our side.

I do a food bank shop weekly, I follow a well researched list, we are asked not to deviate.
Here’s some of the the list; Tinned meat, tinned, fish, pasta, pasta sauce,tinned veg, jam, tinned puddings,biscuits,UHT milk,cereals.
It costs between £12 and £15.
Not very appealing is it?
The list is based on people only being able to afford to cook in a microwave and possibly not being able to afford to run a fridge.
If I was living off that diet I’m sure I would be overweight, unhealthy and miserable.