Who is influencing this government? -and who is funding that influence?

Dickens

MaizieD

I genuinely hope her gamble pays off - literally - for the sake of the millions in the country who are, in the meantime, going to be wrung and hung out to dry.

There is no way on God's earth it's going to pay off, Dickens. It's based on fantasy and disproven economic theories. Not to mention past experience.

Goodness, people scoff at my adherence to MMT, but at least it's based on evidence and research.

Yer, I know MaizieD

I'm being facetious with a straight face.

Have you seen this on TWITTER?

Kwasi Kwarteng receives the shortest email in recorded history

From: IMF

Subject: WTF

???

MaizieD

^I genuinely hope her gamble pays off - literally - for the sake of the millions in the country who are, in the meantime, going to be wrung and hung out to dry.^

There is no way on God's earth it's going to pay off, Dickens. It's based on fantasy and disproven economic theories. Not to mention past experience.

Goodness, people scoff at my adherence to MMT, but at least it's based on evidence and research.

Yer, I know MaizieD

I'm being facetious with a straight face.

Have you seen this on TWITTER?

Kwasi Kwarteng receives the shortest email in recorded history

From: IMF

Subject: WTF

DaisyAnne

I have just been listening to Paul Johnson he points out:

If Labour wins the next election, they are likely to inherit a lot more economic problems than Blair did in 1997. Committing to big tax cuts when public finances will be in a poor state and they will want to increase public spending is risky for them too.

He also said that logically, this government should freeze all state spending for five years while any upturn (assuming there is one) fed through, unfreezing areas and putting money into them as we became better off. He didn't sound as if he thought this was a good idea, just the other side of hiking up the income of the rich. Sadly, because we are all aware they want to get rid of the NHS, etc., it may have been/be, what they are planning to do.

Cutting or freezing state spending is the very last thing we should be doing. Johnson is still working on the 'household budget' theory of national finances.

Osborne tried it and just created a depression/recession that it took a number of painful years to get out of. And left the country weakened by poverty and deprivation.

The economy needs money putting into it. I can't see businesses or overseas investors doing it (apart from asset stripping disaster capitalists). If no-one else will do it the government needs to do it. It doesn't matter what the source of the money is; only investment will save us. State money is as good as anyone else's and, as all state enterprise is supplied by private business providing goods and services, and we have the resources available to purchase, it cannot do anything but revive the economy.

Think Roosevelt's New Deal, a massive programme of state investment, which rescued the US from the effects of the 1930s Depression.

I have just been listening to Paul Johnson he points out:

If Labour wins the next election, they are likely to inherit a lot more economic problems than Blair did in 1997. Committing to big tax cuts when public finances will be in a poor state and they will want to increase public spending is risky for them too.

He also said that logically, this government should freeze all state spending for five years while any upturn (assuming there is one) fed through, unfreezing areas and putting money into them as we became better off. He didn't sound as if he thought this was a good idea, just the other side of hiking up the income of the rich. Sadly, because we are all aware they want to get rid of the NHS, etc., it may have been/be, what they are planning to do.

I genuinely hope her gamble pays off - literally - for the sake of the millions in the country who are, in the meantime, going to be wrung and hung out to dry.

There is no way on God's earth it's going to pay off, Dickens. It's based on fantasy and disproven economic theories. Not to mention past experience.

Goodness, people scoff at my adherence to MMT, but at least it's based on evidence and research.

I've never heard of Tufton Street but it's been clear to me that unelected individuals are directing off stage for their own personal motive and gain. There's really no other explanation for this lemming like behaviour. They have no mandate from the public, or the majority of their own MPs come to think of it. We deserve a General election so that their policies can be put before the electorate. I think that what is going on is criminally negligent.

DaisyAnne

I'm not sure where exactly the influence is coming from. I feel - and it's nothing more than that - that Truss is a believer.

You could be right.

She was of course, in her youth, an anti-monarchist and, later, a staunch Remainer, but is now a dedicated Brexiter.

As she said recently,

"I think it's fair to say that when I was in my youth I was a professional controversialist and I liked exploring ideas and stirring things up.

Well she's certainly stirred things up again. In a controversial way. So there's consistency.

I genuinely hope her gamble pays off - literally - for the sake of the millions in the country who are, in the meantime, going to be wrung and hung out to dry.

Will enriching further the already rich really lead to growth - will it stimulate the economy? Do the rich put their windfalls back into that economy, or do they put it into their bank accounts or property portfolios?

So we wait for trickle down and meanwhile cope with the hundreds of £s added to existing mortgage repayments, the increased hike in energy prices and the soaring cost of living. We will deal with the NHS that is floundering because it's on its knees, the cost of social care (and the lack of it), the long, long waits for ambulances which have resulted in a few people dying because the wait was too long.

Or not? The mood in the UK is changing. Our tolerance is wearing thin. Some - how many? - are saying, "enough is enough". When you've already cut to the bone and the bone is exposed, what do you do then? If you keep running faster and faster and still end up in the same place as you started, how long before patience is exhausted?

Maybe we should all become 'believers' in Britannia Unchained, the holy bible of the libertarian free-marketeers - even if those same free-market disciples themselves ignore what the markets are saying?

I think Fabricant ought to step in???

I'm not sure where exactly the influence is coming from. I feel - and it's nothing more than that - that Truss is a believer.

She now has a week to prove herself. I don't know how many "letters of no-confidence" have gone in, but she risks losing the Conference next week as they will all be thinking about their seats and, one hopes, their constituents.

They won't have the figures until November, they say. All Truss and Kwarteng can do is a Billy Graham-type show and encourage the MPs at the Conference to "believe". If the Treasury is busy producing a document that makes it all seem possible, ready for November, they will have nothing new to say to their Conference.

I feel she is a believer and will not change. They cannot vote for another leader, surely? She may decide she should sack Kwarteng, blaming him. But then what? Other than the odd ERG Tory backing her, I have watched those we might trust, those far more knowledgeable than any MP, appearing on TV looking like they have been hit by the wrecking ball they believe this to be.

"The markets will react as they will".

That was the Chancellor's reaction to the drop in the pound. He thinks that calling attention to the fact - mentioning it - is an effort to "talk down Britain".

Later in the day he reassured investors, telling them that he doesn't comment on 'market movements'.

... and he thinks "it's a very good day for the UK".

The Laffer Curve really is 'avin' a laff.

It is not hyperbole to express deep concern about the mindset and policies of this government. About the sheer incompetence that is coupled with policies that are setting us on a divisive downward trajectory. Of course I am concerned and so are many others. And we are right to be.

From Jason Hunter- hyperbole?

*The Brexiteers used to say we have to leave the EU because look at the economy and currency in Greece and Italy....
Post-Brexit Broken Britain is now in a worse place than ever.
Cost of Government borrowing in the UK is now higher and more risky than Greece OR Italy!*

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11257865/More-TWO-MILLION-households-face-sharp-rise-mortgage-repayments-two-years.html#comments

Here's some hyperbole from an unusual suspect.

Urmstongran

I care about society.
I care very much about my family.
I want my country to do well.
However I’ve not got tears streaming down my face nor do I feel Armageddon is just around the corner!

Oh the irony! Oh the hyperbole!

Urmstongran

Such hyperbole on here from all the usual suspects. ?

Or
Such strongly held and heart-felt opinions from well informed, caring people.

I do not know why you find that funny Urmstongran.

You are welcome. As Maisie said 'just keep the blinkers on'.

Such hyperbole on here from all the usual suspects. ?

Urmstongran

I care about society.
I care very much about my family.
I want my country to do well.
However I’ve not got tears streaming down my face nor do I feel Armageddon is just around the corner!

Meloni's speech:

woman
mother
Christian

Meloni can try and hide behind those goodie labels, it won't work. Most dictators and fascists have always 'loved their family'.

However I’ve not got tears streaming down my face nor do I feel Armageddon is just around the corner!

Of course not, Ug. The tears would never get past the blinkers...

Who talked about Armageddon? (although Putin might bring it much much closer - but this is not what we are taling about in this thread).

Trickling down insecurity, fear and violence takes time, but is much much faster than trickling down economics!

We visited South Africa many times - and considered moving there. We would have a fabulous house with all the trimmings and luxury. But no, we do not want to live behind electric fences.

If education, social welfare, NHS, salaries and rights continue to be eroded, and prices going up- civil unrest will follow. There is NO doubt about that. How long? Just depends how fast the above takes places. Elastics can be pulled and pulled, and pulled some more- but at some point, it will break and return with massive force, aka violence. History tells us this, and has done again, andf again. But do we learn?

This is the second day of radio silence from ministers - do they have nothing to say?

I care about society.
I care very much about my family.
I want my country to do well.
However I’ve not got tears streaming down my face nor do I feel Armageddon is just around the corner!

growstuff

*if you want any form of decent society*

Ay, there’s the rub! Many people couldn't care less about a decent society.

Indeed- but it will come back and bite them - and hard.

Because a society which is not fair and not decent, creates unrest, insecurity, crime, violence.

I often thought this when visiting South Africa. Would you want to live a life of luxury, nice villa, servants, swimming pool, private schools, behind electric fences and signs that read 'armed response, trespassers will be shot'? And where you can't go anywhere otherwise than by car with gun safe body work and windows.

No, me neither.

So even if they don't care about a decent society- self preservation should make them re-think- for their own sake.

if you want any form of decent society

Ay, there’s the rub! Many people couldn't care less about a decent society.

And remember the experiment began 6 long years ago with the Brexit failure, which has been the run up to what we have now.

When ever did a little failure stop these fanatics?