Eddie Izzard

But I suppose if one of his hatreds coincides with yours you can ignore the rest. you really can't help yourself can you? False allegations time after time. That was a tactic of trisher a TRA when she posted, it wasn't true then and isn't true now.

No need for nasty jibes, Glorianny.

I don't hate transpeople, as I tire of having to repeat. As for the journalist - I have never heard of him or read anything he's written AFAIK. If I read something racist or homophobic I would disagree with it, but I thought his article on Izzard was spot on.

Doodledog

No, you can take each article as it stands. It's perfectly possible to disagree with someone about one thing and agree with them on another. But we've been over that.

He's been described as a Marxist anarchist Doodledog they're not people who write articles without set agendas. In this case no doubt to spread division, But he hates homosexual marriage as well. Perhaps he just has deep seated prejudices. Ignoring racism, condemning homosexual marriage and disliking transpeople would seem to confirm this. But I suppose if one of his hatreds coincides with yours you can ignore the rest.

FarNorth I don't have a daughter, but hell would freeze over before I'd allow a granddaughter to go in alone, that's for sure.
Eddie Izzard would not be in danger in the vast majority of male toilets, so why does he need to use female ones when he clearly isn't and never can be female? As for your latest post, they truly think threats will make us think "of course they're harmless, just want to pee"

Great posts MargotLedbetter . Some have great difficulty coming to terms with the fact we're sexually dimorphic, the sole reason being to facilitate sexual reproduction. We get the sex is a spectrum nonsense, wrong bodies, sexed brains that somehow reacted differently than all the other cells in the body to the 'chromosome washes'. No theory is too farcical that it can't be trotted out. And if you prefer to stick to proven science then you're just "not kind"

"Yes, this is exactly why women don't want men in our bathrooms with us and girls."

No, you can take each article as it stands. It's perfectly possible to disagree with someone about one thing and agree with them on another. But we've been over that.

MargotLedbetter

Oh, all the usual TRA tropes on display here. You don't like an article that to everyone else is just telling the straightforward truth? Look for something else the author has written that is controversial and do the 'well, if you like this piece you're aligning yourself to fascists/ racists/ the far right/ football hooligans'. No. We'll take each piece on its own merit. Brendan O'Neill may be erratic but on this he's right. We don't have to agree 100% with everything a journalist or commentator writes before we're allowed to hold one piece of work up as a good thing. This is an old trick of the far left, the purity test, and it lost its power some time ago.

And accusations of rudeness. No, just because people hold a different opinion to you express it robustly doesn't mean they're being rude.

I see that VS's 'proof' turns out to be a combination of kindness and born in the wrong body. Every time I ask 'believers' to explain their belief I always hope they'll come up with something rational and convincing — and every time I'm disappointed.

You don't seem to appreciate that Brendan O'Neil is about as far-left as it is possible to be. As someone whose views are much to the left of most on GN as is possible I disapprove strongly of assumptions about the working class most especially of the assumption they must be rascist. And as I said why should I listen to such a man? Because he is a man?

VioletSky you say

The onus isn't on me to prove anything I'm afraid

But it is. You're the one wanting to change thousands of years of the status quo. You want us all the change our language and behaviour and beliefs and for women to lose their identity and rights. You have to have a really sound reason for doing that.

There's no community on earth that doesn't divide its members between male and female. There's no man on earth who's had a child or woman who's impregnated a woman. We are sexed beings.

For hundreds of years men and women have had separate facilities as a means of safeguarding women from assault and offering both sexes dignity. You want to overturn all that because...?

Feelings.

We don't support those people with the psychological condition body integrity disorder to chop off a limb, or blind those whose fantasise about being blind. We don't say to a mentally ill anorexic whose weight is so low she's in danger of dying 'Here are some diet pills and here's an appointment for liposuction.' We don't create a false reality for those with dysphoria.

What will you want us to believe next? The Loch Ness monster is real? The earth is flat? The tooth fair exists?

"Seriously, if you are a parent then tell me this - if you saw Eddie Izzard in an ill-fitting dress and hideous lipstick bumbling into the ladies..and you didn’t KNOW it was Eddie Izzard..

..would you REALLY let your daughter go in there with him? Think about it.."

Thank you JaneJudge.

Apropos of the "Spiked" article linked up thread, I'd previously read about EI's shout off with the school girls in the loos, no appreciation or understanding of where they were coming from, surely not reading people's reactions, theirs borne out of sheer alarm, would indicate that he has a complete lack of nous, or lack of empathy, which I suppose isn't uncommon in MPs per se, but hardly conducive to representing an entire constituency, it won't be all students, there will be those from strict religious groups who are hardly going to take him very seriously if anything he will offend.

Going back to the school girls, that hanging around toilets is typical of that age, I remember doing it with a couple of mates, sometimes trying out make up, I see girls doing it now. Of course they're going to be alarmed when seeing to all intents and purposes a man in what they regard as a private female only place, these are the real girls, not some 60 year old fella saying he's doing girl mode today. He EI, can wear all the raspberry berets and lipsticks he has at his disposal, he still looks like a bloke, a bloke dressed up as a quasi woman.

Rosie Duffied Labour MP for Canterbury has stated she will resign her seat if EI is selected from an all women short list and apparently she won't be alone.

I'm just a wobbly teaching assistant with a ridiculous amount of children and cats who happens to believe trans people are deserving of kindness and respect and a place to have a wee

we all believe that too VS

There is a better way and it doesn't including making things more dangerous for women or vulnerable people (trans included) It's best not to take things personal on Gransnet or other forums, sometimes it is impossible but I think we are all guilty of being swept along with emotion, whatever that emotion may be. As women we have more in common with one another than anything that may divide us

Well if people genuinely don't remember all the issues I do agree need resolution

And if people genuinely think I'm an abusive person who uses abuse tactics in discussion

Then I really don't understand why my name comes up so very often or why I would be spoken too at all.

I'm just a wobbly teaching assistant with a ridiculous amount of children and cats who happens to believe trans people are deserving of kindness and respect and a place to have a wee.

If that makes me a terrible human then sure, I'm a terrible human

But at least I don't reciprocate the awfulness that comes my way and I wouldn't even if the numbers were on my side on these threads.

I believe there is a better way.

I hope one day you all see that.

Doodledog is saying exactly what I would like to say but I am not as eloquent.

I’m not transphobic. My late cousin was trans and we had a good relationship.

The onus isn't on me to prove anything

Are you such a superior being then VS? Did you not demand earlier, that others have to prove it but feel that you are exempt from such requirements. How very Mimi.

Oh and the onus isn’t on me to prove anything since I have biological facts on my side.

Re your idea of equality, you’ve demonstrated in so many ways that you only believe in an equality that benefits trans, in particular TIM, now with the exception of TIM in female sport.
So you feel you can pick and choose your equality?
???

I think acceptance of who people want or need to be is a completely different matter than changes to laws and guidelines wrt language especially. The former should be a given and covered under discrimination law, that latter should always consider natal born females only. I don't feel that is radical.

VioletSky

I didn't jump to a conclusion doodledog

I was unsure so I asked

I think it is interesting that you accusse me of gaslighting

Especially when I am very honest as a victim of abuse and have told you its incredibly painful

Who is gaslighting here?

It's not me.

You asked if a general comment was about you. That is my point. Did anyone else assume that it was about them?

I am very aware of gaslighting too - you don't have the monopoly on that. And I can see it in the victim-playing and passive aggression. I am not gaslighting by saying that - I am speaking my mind and telling you straight.

Brilliant post Doodledog

Ok, so if scientists have found differences in genes, how does that mean that someone is in the wrong body? Are they saying that there are genes that make people male and female, and these are separate from gametes? So someone could be male physically but female - what? Psychologically? Emotionally? how does that work? What is the 'essence' that makes someone male or female 'in their heads'? Is it a manufactured thing, based on culture or historical age, or is it a biological thing, in which case, how does it manifest?

And why is there such an outbreak of people feeling they are 'in the wrong body'?

The gay analogy doesn't work for me, as that is about sexuality not so-called 'gender'. In fact, Stonewall claims that homosexuality is wrong, and instead there is same-gender attraction, (which conveniently means that lesbians are transphobic if they reject sexual advances from transwomen). I resent the implication that people who don't buy into the trans agenda are likely to be homophobic. I am most definitely not homophobic - I just don't see a link between being gay and being trans (beyond the possibility that a lot of children being encouraged to see themselves as trans are actually in denial about being gay).

Of course I (and based on posts on here, I think I can say many others who argue against the trans agenda) want people to live and love as they wish (and laugh, to complete the trilogy!) Why wouldn't we? Who people love, and how they live their lives is not what any of this is about. It is about women's rights, and the protection and safeguarding of children (and sport and language, but let's not fight on to many fronts at once).

Lots of questions, sorry - but there are never answers to them, which is why I remain entirely unconvinced.

Trans Women Are Ttranswomen and that’s the absolute truth about TIM.
Nothing to do with chemical or surgical operations. With bits, without bits, lowered testosterone or whatever, they’re still male. Until they can change their birth chromosomes they remain male.
Hiding behind the corrupted meaning of the word women instead of using female is just another way of trying make people believe a lie.

The onus isn't on me to prove anything I'm afraid

I believe in the equality act and I'm mostly happy as things stand..

Apart from the areas I agree the equality act is not being interpreted correctly like sports

But the amount of issues there are that I do agree on are irrelevant when people just want someone to vent their anger at and the pickings are slim because I am one of the very few who will stand up against shenanigans

It's just that many people think the GC argument is one that doesn't need addressing as it will implode on its own

Sensible people

Oh dear

Laters x

VS you have just demonstrated exactly why the T was latched on to LGB. The shame about the way homosexual and bisexual people were vilified runs deep through society. Equality has finally been reached between the sexualities, all may marry or not the person of their choice. All may have consensual sex with any adult of legal age and it's the same for all sexual orientations. Homosexual equality didn't impinge on anyone else, it didn't affect how any of us go about our daily lives. Not one of my rights as a woman was diminished by homosexuals being treated the same as me. Trans rights are a whole different matter. When a transwoman enters my single sex female area it is no longer single sex. If a lesbian or bisexual woman enters it remains single sex. There is no compromise that enables the male to enter my protected space and it remain protected.

For the record VS a very dear friends uncle dressed as a women for over 75% of his life.

He was a gentle human in every respect, he knew he was a man and therefore he used male facilities.

No shouting, ranting or raving no insistence that his rights trumped females rights.

I didn't jump to a conclusion doodledog

I was unsure so I asked

I think it is interesting that you accusse me of gaslighting

Especially when I am very honest as a victim of abuse and have told you its incredibly painful

Who is gaslighting here?

It's not me.

Oh, all the usual TRA tropes on display here. You don't like an article that to everyone else is just telling the straightforward truth? Look for something else the author has written that is controversial and do the 'well, if you like this piece you're aligning yourself to fascists/ racists/ the far right/ football hooligans'. No. We'll take each piece on its own merit. Brendan O'Neill may be erratic but on this he's right. We don't have to agree 100% with everything a journalist or commentator writes before we're allowed to hold one piece of work up as a good thing. This is an old trick of the far left, the purity test, and it lost its power some time ago.

And accusations of rudeness. No, just because people hold a different opinion to you express it robustly doesn't mean they're being rude.

I see that VS's 'proof' turns out to be a combination of kindness and born in the wrong body. Every time I ask 'believers' to explain their belief I always hope they'll come up with something rational and convincing — and every time I'm disappointed.