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£18bn cuts to public services

(213 Posts)
Whitewavemark2 Mon 03-Oct-22 10:36:40

This will have an extraordinary affect on the NHS and education.

What are they thinking!

Coco51 Wed 05-Oct-22 12:07:20

I’ve had to turn off Truss’ conference speech because she makes me so angry. We’ve already learned that trickle down doesn’t happen. This Christmas there will be more cold, hungry and homeless children than ever before. And why? because a few well off Conservative party members couldn’t pull the ladder up fast enough.
The u-turns show that Truss policies are ill-considered and have caused irreparable damage in the first month of her premiership. I cannot bear to think what a mess our country will be in if she is allowed to stay until the next election.

Newgran59 Wed 05-Oct-22 11:56:40

HS2 was supposed to deliver high speed passenger services whilst freeing up the older infrastructure to carry container freight and remove a large number of lorries from our roads. That is where the environmental benefit is to be delivered.

MaggsMcG Wed 05-Oct-22 11:42:26

Although May 2024 seems a "while" we all know how fast this last two or three years has gone so it won't be that long. Hopefully there'll still be enough of the NHS and other organisations left to revive it all. I don't have much faith in any politician at present anyway.

Annewilko Wed 05-Oct-22 11:23:43

Whitewavemark2

This will have an extraordinary affect on the NHS and education.

What are they thinking!

They are thinking, "how much can we make for our cronies. Can we now destroy the NHS and the education system?" Not to mention the devastating cuts already made to care, children's services etc they have already made.
Evil to the core.

Whitewavemark2 Wed 05-Oct-22 10:16:22

He is going to address his tweet that has caused consternation on here.

Whitewavemark2 Wed 05-Oct-22 10:14:26

Braverman reminded me of the far right in the ITV programme/documentary highlighted in the Hope Not Hate programme.

She is disgusting. What the hell is wrong with her?

Whitewavemark2 Wed 05-Oct-22 10:10:25

Contrasting two dreams

Martin Luther King

Braverman

Whitewavemark2 Wed 05-Oct-22 10:07:55

Listen to James O’Brian LBC now talking about migrants.

Callistemon21 Wed 05-Oct-22 10:00:47

You suggest, MadeInYorkshire, that the migrants may be mercenaries to pile in when civil unrest happens as you doubt our army boys will want to turn on their own

I'm trying to follow the logic of that but failing.
Perhaps another brew might help.

If they are mercenaries then who is paying them?
If civil unrest happens it would presumably be as a result of this Government's actions
Therefore could the Government be paying them to turn on us when civil unrest happens?
If so, why are they trying to stop them coming here?

?

Can someone help me please?

growstuff Wed 05-Oct-22 09:55:48

Serious and organised crime affects more citizens, more often, than any other national security threat and leads to more deaths in the UK than terrorism, war and natural disasters combined.

www.nationalcrimeagency.gov.uk/who-we-are/our-mission

Let's get terrorist attacks into some kind of context. The vast majority of immigrants, however they arrive in the UK, are not involved.

volver Wed 05-Oct-22 09:50:30

You took the words right out of my mouth WWM2.

Whitewavemark2 Wed 05-Oct-22 09:49:49

Blimey.

Katie59 Wed 05-Oct-22 09:47:31

JaneJudge

This is the kind of stuff Irish economic migrants had to face not even that long ago. Even into the 80s/90s

That’s hardly surprising considering the IRA terrorism at the time
If you are a migrant, terrorism originating in your community is not going to endear you to the rest of the population.

JaneJudge Wed 05-Oct-22 09:09:50

This is the kind of stuff Irish economic migrants had to face not even that long ago. Even into the 80s/90s

volver Wed 05-Oct-22 09:07:28

We're all bl**dy migrants.

Katie59 Wed 05-Oct-22 09:05:48

Whitewavemark2

Terrorism in U.K. is almost 100% home grown.

You know perfectly well that the recent terrorist attackers have originated in the migrant community

Katie59 Wed 05-Oct-22 09:02:48

growstuff

How much Katie59?

???.

growstuff Wed 05-Oct-22 07:19:25

How much Katie59?

Whitewavemark2 Wed 05-Oct-22 07:12:13

Terrorism in U.K. is almost 100% home grown.

Katie59 Wed 05-Oct-22 07:10:16

growstuff

The UK hasn't had a largely agricultural society for centuries.

You are accepting the premise that asylum seekers are mercenaries. Any evidence for that?

Not agricultural, but that is exactly what has been happening for many years, many of the migrant communities do this. East European migrants tend not to because their prospects are better in EU.
Not mercenaries, although some terrorism by extremists has taken place and a lot of effort has to be taken to reduce the incidents.

growstuff Wed 05-Oct-22 02:10:04

The UK hasn't had a largely agricultural society for centuries.

You are accepting the premise that asylum seekers are mercenaries. Any evidence for that?

DaisyAnne Tue 04-Oct-22 22:15:20

MadeInYorkshire

grannyrebel7

Do you ever think we're living in a parallel universe? This government just goes from bad to worse. Three weeks in and they've done a Boris style U-turn already! Granted it's the right thing to do, but it doesn't look good for Truss and her merry band. Keep making mistakes Liz! That's fine by me smile

It's unreal isn't it?

I am getting to the point where I think it is deliberate now to stir up civil unrest, I cannot see any other reason why this is happening, but then again why would they want that? I have actually been thinking that all these fit young male "asylum seekers" - not half starved women and children who have walked across Europe, may be mercenaries to pile in when civil unrest happens, as I doubt our army boys will want to turn on their own? Bit 'conspiracy theorist' I know but it all just seems so ODD, the pandemic, vaccines, Truss and Kwarteng doing quite bizarre things?? I am so confused about it all ....

So, when we lived in a largely agricultural society, families sent, often the second son, abroad to work, save and buy land. They would then send another relative, brother or cousin, sent to do the same and then help the next family member. Were we sending mercenaries? This system is always what has happened. One of the younger, male members of the family was sent. They made a path for others to follow.

This has been the way that poor/dispossessed families have coped when there was little at home for them. You would have thought this was something new that happened overnight.

MaizieD Tue 04-Oct-22 20:50:45

The force of your insistence that everyone believes what you believe is beginning to sound like we are listening to a priest from the sixteenth century.

Suppressing my first instinct to be very cross with you, Daisy Anne I just think that's very amusing...

If you ask the public now if they want a "sound economy", they would, almost certainly say yes. So, we mainly agree about the wider argument. Your "Taxation doesn't fund spending!" doesn't matter a jot to most people. If it were a matter of their life and death, people would agree.

It is actually a matter of life and death for some people when welfare benefits are cut on the excuse that 'we can't afford the'm, or to force people into work, and where claims are so tardily processed that people die of terminal illness or starvation waiting for their claims to be settled. Or people die on hospital waiting lists because the NHS is being kept short of funds. Not just on waiting lists either, they die in ambulances queuing outside A&E departments, or even just during the several hours wait at home for ambulances to arrive...

And, quite frankly, people should care a jot about whether taxation or spending comes first because a massive deception is being practised on the population when government claims that they have to tax before they can spend. Understanding that this is not true allows for much better informed political choices when it comes to voting in general elections where the accusation of parties being 'spendthrift' hold a great deal of weight with voters. I like the idea of people knowing the truth or otherwise of what they are being told.

These are not the economics currently taught. What if taxes don't actually "fund spending"? What if they can print all they want? Those proponents of MMT, many grinding their political axe, will tell you that if the government spends too much, the excess demand will also cause inflation

No they don't. They tell you that putting money into the economy ad lib without there being sufficient resources available for that money to buy will cause inflation. Which is why taxation has such a key role in keeping the supply of money under control.

As for it 'not currently taught', there is a whole swathe of economy professors teaching MMT. Just as there are monetarists, neo Keynesians and a host of others.

Taxation probably doesn't fund spending in a direct exchange, but it is a shorthand for the circulation that takes it back into the funding pool. So why does it matter?

It matters as I have said above. A belief that a country is like a household and constrained by the same budgetary rules gives a completely different perspective on one's view of how the country's economy is being handled from the view from the perspective of, given certain constraints to control inflation, a country can spend what it pleases on what it feels is important for its economy and its citizens without having to raise the money from its citizens first.

If we all want a sound economy and we want the best for all, perhaps we have to get together and discuss ideas instead of shouting slogans at one another.

Well, that is what I am trying to do. 'Shouting slogans' is a good way to arouse interest. It's such a radical concept for many people. Sorry if it bores you.

What has to be understood is that MMT isn't a 'theory' It is an account, based on evidence and research, of how a state obtains its finance. It is completely apolitical.

The state can use its self financing powers in any way it wants to. it can give it all to the wealthy or it can give it all to the poor, or it can just use it to enable a more equable distribution. It can withhold money and put 'the markets' above all else, or it can use it to provide services for the population. The ultimate deciders of how the money is spent is the voting population who make a choice about which party's plans sound the best. It should be an informed choice.

I have spent my life championing 'minority' causes of one sort or another, based on evidence. I won't stop now....

Norah Tue 04-Oct-22 20:19:23

MaizieD

volver

But are people right to think that one way for them to support the provision of government services they value is to pay more taxes?

No. It's a myth.

It's state creation of money that enables you to pay the tax in the first place.

When you think about it, in the 1950s, say, the UK population was about 45 -50 million people and a 'good' wage £12 - £20 per week.

70 years later, the population is 66+million and a 'good' wage (taking £25,000 pa as around median) is upwards of £500+ a week.

There's still enough money to go round (or would be if better distributed). Where has it come from?

All the money and bonuses "Bankers and Rich People" earn is taxed, fully, when earned. Business created that money, correct?

MadeInYorkshire Tue 04-Oct-22 20:04:30

growstuff

MadeinYorkshire I think you're hallucinating. Maybe you should have a lie down.

Ha, ha!

Be nice to have a lie down, if only I could sleep!

Taken me 9 months and 13 incorrect bills from British Gas to get a proper amount on my account. In August they reduced my Fixed DD to £30 a month stating 'my payments were spot on'! Now want £300 a month off me, which I cannot pay .... what exactly does the "Price cap" mean, as myself and my disabled friend who they also want £300 off will be paying £3600 ... she turned her heating on for a few hours at the weekend as her and husband both disabled now and her gas smart meter unit hit over £15!

Me and my conservatory are not going to cope! My heating in here is underfloor electric so it would be twice as much almost for just a few hours .... not happening! Hypothermia coming up!