So, are we all enemies of the state now?

PS. I can't access Telegraph articles.

Casdon

growstuff

Cabinet ministers?

I didn't read any reports about them. The only ones I read about were Gove, Dorries and Shapps and they're not in the Cabinet. Badenoch, Braverman, Cleverly, Philp, Berry and Mordaunt backed Truss and Kwarteng.

I'm trying to think what the alternative would be. It could be even worse.

PS. I bet Johnson thinks this is all a jolly jape!

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/10/02/ben-wallace-wont-rule-standing-tory-leadership-future/
inews.co.uk/news/politics/penny-mordaunt-liz-truss-benefits-squeeze-prime-minister-tory-rebellion-1892295
These are a couple of them. They may be publicly saying they back Truss, but the undermining is rife.

It will be interesting to see what they actually do. Undermining her is one thing, but disposing of her is another matter. They'll be more concerned about their own jobs.

MaizieD

MerylStreep

The left leaning New Statesman consider the EU Project Neo- Liberal.

www.newstatesman.com/politics/brexit/2017/07/lexit-eu-neoliberal-project-so-lets-do-something-different-when-we-leave-it

I find that really amusing in view of the fact that our vote to leave the EU has landed us in the most extreme Neo-Liberal experiment the UK has ever faced.

I wish I found it amusing. It's one person's view and it's not very well researched. Of course, a free press has to allow that kind of article. The "New Statesman" does cover a number of different angles. I used to subscribe to paper copies, but I gave up because so many of the writers just seem to like the sound of their own voices.

growstuff

Cabinet ministers?

I didn't read any reports about them. The only ones I read about were Gove, Dorries and Shapps and they're not in the Cabinet. Badenoch, Braverman, Cleverly, Philp, Berry and Mordaunt backed Truss and Kwarteng.

I'm trying to think what the alternative would be. It could be even worse.

PS. I bet Johnson thinks this is all a jolly jape!

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/10/02/ben-wallace-wont-rule-standing-tory-leadership-future/
inews.co.uk/news/politics/penny-mordaunt-liz-truss-benefits-squeeze-prime-minister-tory-rebellion-1892295
These are a couple of them. They may be publicly saying they back Truss, but the undermining is rife.

MerylStreep

The left leaning New Statesman consider the EU Project Neo- Liberal.

www.newstatesman.com/politics/brexit/2017/07/lexit-eu-neoliberal-project-so-lets-do-something-different-when-we-leave-it

What are you trying to imply?

That article was written in 2017 by one writer. The "New Statesman" covers a range of views (usually left-leaning). Joe Guinan is an American and very left-wing. Many people with ultra left-wing views see the EU as capitalist and evil - that's why Corbyn never committed himself to it. Americans have a different definition of neo-liberalism. If you think about it, the EU with all its "red tape" and centralised laws is the opposite of neo-liberalism.

MerylStreep

The left leaning New Statesman consider the EU Project Neo- Liberal.

www.newstatesman.com/politics/brexit/2017/07/lexit-eu-neoliberal-project-so-lets-do-something-different-when-we-leave-it

I find that really amusing in view of the fact that our vote to leave the EU has landed us in the most extreme Neo-Liberal experiment the UK has ever faced.

The left leaning New Statesman consider the EU Project Neo- Liberal.

www.newstatesman.com/politics/brexit/2017/07/lexit-eu-neoliberal-project-so-lets-do-something-different-when-we-leave-it

Cabinet ministers?

I didn't read any reports about them. The only ones I read about were Gove, Dorries and Shapps and they're not in the Cabinet. Badenoch, Braverman, Cleverly, Philp, Berry and Mordaunt backed Truss and Kwarteng.

I'm trying to think what the alternative would be. It could be even worse.

PS. I bet Johnson thinks this is all a jolly jape!

growstuff

Which cabinet ministers are breaking rank? Just look at them! They're a bunch of spineless losers! One of the headlines on the BBC website is "Cabinet ministers urge Tory MPs to unite behind Liz Truss".

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63189613

Several broke rank last week growstuff, which undermined Truss at the conference. On Sky News today they are reporting that Kwarteng rates her chance of success as PM at less than 40% - and so it goes on.

growstuff

NotSpaghetti

Good post earlier growstuff - food for thought.
Thank you.

You're welcome, although they were Bobby Kennedy's words.

Feeling cynical this morning.

I read those words a couple of days ago and was glad to think that politicians who understand do still exist. Then, of course, I remembered that he was assassinated over 50 years ago.

I wonder if he would have still held to those words had he got further into his political career?

Just musing. Don't want to start an argument.

But I've just watched this:

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2022/10/09/the-fight-against-the-oligarchs-neoliberalism/

NotSpaghetti

Good post earlier growstuff - food for thought.
Thank you.

You're welcome, although they were Bobby Kennedy's words.

Good post earlier growstuff - food for thought.
Thank you.

Which cabinet ministers are breaking rank? Just look at them! They're a bunch of spineless losers! One of the headlines on the BBC website is "Cabinet ministers urge Tory MPs to unite behind Liz Truss".

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63189613

Casdon

It’s like a pack of cards growstuff. Things are going to keep going wrong. Policies will not be supported, more scandals, more lies uncovered, more mishandling of the media, more Tory MPs will break ranks because they can’t live with her plans, cabinet members will resign - it will all come crashing down.

Well, let's hope that enough Conservative MPs do have the guts to break rank.

At the moment, I think they're worried about who would be next. It could get even worse.

Trash the state and then say there's no money and things have to change. Some people will believe it unfortunately, so the perfect excuse is provided for selling off the NHS and developing "freeports" with no tax or "red tape". Growth is a myth, if the majority of the population don't benefit and are treated like Industrial Revolution workers.

It’s like a pack of cards growstuff. Things are going to keep going wrong. Policies will not be supported, more scandals, more lies uncovered, more mishandling of the media, more Tory MPs will break ranks because they can’t live with her plans, cabinet members will resign - it will all come crashing down.

Reading this morning that the NT are threatening to mobilize it's members in protest. I'm a member and I totally support their response.

Maybe you're right Casdon, but what are her opponents actually going to do? How many will vote against her? If they don't, she'll get her own way, however unpopular she is. She's prepared people for being unpopular and said she doesn't care. Redtop headlines have been about how there's going to be more of the same. The "enemies of the state" fits into the same narrative. I think the reaction was anticipated.

She hasn’t got a grip at all in my opinion. If she had, cabinet members would never break ranks so early in a government, she’d be riding high in the opinion polls as a ‘fresh start’ PM, and would not have her clearly stated policies rubbished then scrapped. It’s all slipping through her fingers.

Why should she care about the public? She has her parliamentary majority and can do what she wants.

Oh, she has got a grip. She's achieving exactly what her neo-liberal puppet masters want. The timing could never have been better. The Conservatives have a huge majority and Johnson had already begun the process of undermining state institutions. Brexit has enabled it.

This isn't an accident - it's deliberate and planned.

She isn't listening to the public. We don't care about 'growth, growth, growth'. We do care about being able to pay our bills, eat, keep warm in the winter ahead, protect our environment and try to avert the devastating effects of climate change, protect and conserve animals and plants, sewage in our rivers and coasts. Someone should tell her to get a grip.

Coco51

Whitewavemark2

GrannyGravy13

A society that promotes growth for those who are able along with a support network for those who aren’t.

I judge deeds and actions not words.

But everyone wants growth for goodness sake!

It is nothing special. Who on earth is going to stand up and say she doesn’t believe in growth.

Starmer promised growth last week. But growth with cooperation. Growth with green credentials and growth without disharmony.

God knows we need a period of strength and harmony.

What Truss promised was more disruption, (her words) more identifying the enemy. And tactics of shock and awe, which has been shelved but not gone away.

But what is clear now is the blue water between both her and Starmer. People have a real choice.

Growth cannot be sustained exponentially on a finite planet. What is wrong with maintaining a reasonable level of living for everyone.? Back in the day the grocer, green grocer,butcher, ironmonger, banks, building societies all had their place, satisfied with modest profits. Then big companies came in and poached trade from countless independents with ever greater demands for obscene profits. Truss has chucked future generations out with the bathwater. Only when the planet is depleted with excessive greed will people realise we can’t eat and drink money.

Growth taken in isolation is a nonsensical indicator of a healthy economy anyway.

Richard Murphy wrote an article in the Mirror about it:

www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/liz-truss-fails-understand-what-28183778

Bobby Kennedy delivered a speech about growth (GDP):

"Even if we act to erase material poverty, there is another greater task, it is to confront the poverty of satisfaction - purpose and dignity - that afflicts us all.

Too much and for too long, we seemed to have surrendered personal excellence and community values in the mere accumulation of material things. Our Gross National Product, now, is over $800 billion dollars a year, but that Gross National Product - if we judge the United States of America by that - that Gross National Product counts air pollution and cigarette advertising, and ambulances to clear our highways of carnage. It counts special locks for our doors and the jails for the people who break them. It counts the destruction of the redwood and the loss of our natural wonder in chaotic sprawl. It counts napalm and counts nuclear warheads and armored cars for the police to fight the riots in our cities. It counts Whitman's rifle and Speck's knife, and the television programs which glorify violence in order to sell toys to our children.

Yet the gross national product does not allow for the health of our children, the quality of their education or the joy of their play. It does not include the beauty of our poetry or the strength of our marriages, the intelligence of our public debate or the integrity of our public officials. It measures neither our wit nor our courage, neither our wisdom nor our learning, neither our compassion nor our devotion to our country, it measures everything in short, except that which makes life worthwhile. And it can tell us everything about America except why we are proud that we are Americans.

If this is true here at home, so it is true elsewhere in world."

HannahLoisLuke

grannyrebel7

Yes she's ultra right wing, so very dangerous. I just wonder what her parents, the left wing activists, think of her.

If her parents were very vocal, ultra left that could have turned her to the right as all extreme views are off putting. Including hers!

I think the claim that her parents were very left-wing is an embellishment of the truth by Ms Truss. Her mother was once a member of CND, but was seen supporting her daughter this year. Her father was a university maths lecturer, which apparently qualifies him as a "leftie". I don't think either of them was "extreme" in their views. This claim would appear to belong in the same category as the claim that she went to a bad school.

Whitewavemark2

GrannyGravy13

A society that promotes growth for those who are able along with a support network for those who aren’t.

I judge deeds and actions not words.

But everyone wants growth for goodness sake!

It is nothing special. Who on earth is going to stand up and say she doesn’t believe in growth.

Starmer promised growth last week. But growth with cooperation. Growth with green credentials and growth without disharmony.

God knows we need a period of strength and harmony.

What Truss promised was more disruption, (her words) more identifying the enemy. And tactics of shock and awe, which has been shelved but not gone away.

But what is clear now is the blue water between both her and Starmer. People have a real choice.

Growth cannot be sustained exponentially on a finite planet. What is wrong with maintaining a reasonable level of living for everyone.? Back in the day the grocer, green grocer,butcher, ironmonger, banks, building societies all had their place, satisfied with modest profits. Then big companies came in and poached trade from countless independents with ever greater demands for obscene profits. Truss has chucked future generations out with the bathwater. Only when the planet is depleted with excessive greed will people realise we can’t eat and drink money.