Are young people turning gay?

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Time this thread was closed. When they get too long people don't read them and you just go round in circles repeating things.

DaisyAnne

The title of the thread Chestnut.

You haven't read the thread. I addressed this a long way back, can't keep repeating myself!

If it's been a long day you dont need to solve the complexities of human sexuality right now

I've been in work since 6am this morning and am I only just cooking tea after a very long day, so please forgive me for not having many solutions tonight

there was a thing on radio 2 today about people who were gay or lesbian and are now in hetero relationships. I forgot what they were calling the new jokey type terms people used....

but most the callers rang in and said they would be described as pansexual now/bisexual - some argument about bisexual being out dated

People with a dsd are Male or female. They are not some third sex or some unknown sex. Many with a dsd find those 'beliefs' offensive and many have begged not to be used as some sort of gotcha.
Its impossible to change sex.

The title of the thread Chestnut.

I agree, MissA. It's not remotely the same as changing sex or 'gender'. Sexuality is about attraction, and that can and does change for some people. The thing is that changing sexuality doesn't affect other people (unless there is a spouse in the mix, as in Chestnut's example). You stay a man or a woman, and the only difference in your life is who you sleep with.

I am also unclear about who is insulting whom.

I would imagine everyone is different in terms of who they want to have sex with, and whether that is a permanent state of being, or just a foray somewhere they have never been before.

DaisyAnne

Chestnut

Mollygo You don’t turn gay, it’s not a metamorphosis.

This has already been discussed on this thread. People can and do turn gay. Originally I questioned whether there were actually more gay people in existence now than in the past, for whatever reason. If so then this could include people changing from straight to gay which does seem to happen (read the thread).

It is intended to insult. There is no justifiable reason for writing it like that.

Not only is it insulting to those who are gay, but I feel it is degrading to other members who are associated with such a title. The ignorance shown in the thread also casts its shadow but at least that is not in everyone's face each day.

What is intended to insult? Not sure what you're talking about. Further back in the thread it has already been discussed, people who spend their lives as straight, have children, then years later the husband becomes gay, wife has no idea whatsoever. It's not an insult, it's a fact. It happens.

It does include those with Kleinfelter Syndrome XXY who are male, but generally suffer from infertility and other disabilities.

About 1 in 1000 births are a child with Kleinfelter Syndrome.

Klinefelter 1 in 650 births.

Subtract from variants figure.

Can anyone do the Maths?

Even that isn’t accurate varian as it would include those with Klinefelter Syndrome as stated above.

Chestnut

Mollygo You don’t turn gay, it’s not a metamorphosis.

This has already been discussed on this thread. People can and do turn gay. Originally I questioned whether there were actually more gay people in existence now than in the past, for whatever reason. If so then this could include people changing from straight to gay which does seem to happen (read the thread).

It is intended to insult. There is no justifiable reason for writing it like that.

Not only is it insulting to those who are gay, but I feel it is degrading to other members who are associated with such a title. The ignorance shown in the thread also casts its shadow but at least that is not in everyone's face each day.

Not XX and not XY one in 1,666 births

So far less than 1,7%

isna.org/faq/frequency/

The estimate you quote Farzanah, has been inflated by including individuals with Klinefelter syndrome (XXY)

This is an extra X chromosome, but those with this syndrome are male and have stated very clearly that they should not be labelled intersex.

The extra chromosome no more affects their male designation than does the extra chromosome in Downs Syndrome.

I’m afraid this is another case of an ideology that wants to prove a point including in the figures individuals who are clear that this designation does not refer to them.

Sex at birth is not necessarily binary, around estimated) 1.7% of children are either discovered to be intersex at birth or when older.
I believe, from what I have read and understand, that many do not want to be categorised, or have surgery and/or hormone treatment to align to one sex or another.

I don't really want to know. I usually ignore any thread on GN about trans issues. I was more interested in whether it's really true that there are more gay young people these days.

growstuff

But every gay person I know still identifies as his/her birth gender. They don't want to take pills or have surgery to be any other gender.

Being trans is something else, which is why I'm perplexed that talk of homosexuality should turn into a discussion about being trans.

It will have happened because of the usual thread drift - I'm not reading back to find the turning point, but if you really want to know then that is an option - but also because the 'survey' in the OP includes LGBTQ+ as compared with the older figures for LGB. It therefore stands to reason that there will be more people defining as in the former category than would have declared themselves in the latter back in the day.

That would all be fine and dandy, and was in many cases, until some trans rights activists started saying that they 'were' women, and demanded the right to go anywhere that women go. Some wear beards and are very obviously male, and deliberately flaunt their maleness at women's events, in female spaces and in women's sport.

Also, an increasing number of children are being encouraged to 'transition' and being told that their bodies are 'wrong' and should be modified.

As people keep saying, people living as the other sex in a harmless way are not the issue - in fact, they are among those unhappy with the TRAs and their supporters. Their cause has been set back years.

But every gay person I know still identifies as his/her birth gender. They don't want to take pills or have surgery to be any other gender.

Being trans is something else, which is why I'm perplexed that talk of homosexuality should turn into a discussion about being trans.

People have always been able to express themselves as they wish. Yes, there have at times been laws against things like homosexuality, but it never stopped it happening and lesbians have never been sanctioned.

The only difference now is that you can have surgery and take pills to make you physically like the sex you wish to be.

When my sister died, the partner of her deceased ex-boss came to the funeral. A very dapper elderly gentleman, quite slight. Nobody attending the funeral, other than those who had worked with the organisation - and not even all of them, realised that 'he' was actually 'she', and those that did know, never gave the issue a thought. He/she had lived like that for decades and he was accepted for what he was. All this long before the current controversies.

But for all but a minute number of people with genetic abnormalities, every child born is male or female. If a skeleton is found, the sex can be identified. Without clothes or grave goods, or other extraneous evidence, gender or sexuality can not, even if they had gender changing surgery. Since sex can define many health outcomes . It is best that it is sex that is registered and then people can just be free to be whatever they believe/know they are.

As I see it, people can change sexuality but not sex. Sex is immutable, but sexuality is fluid. Gender is something else altogether and is constructed and so vague that those wanting to change from one to another are unable to explain what it is.

I did. And IMO you don’t turn gay, although this may be simply word usage.
For me, you might, like my nephew admit that you are gay, or you might, after several years of marriage, decide you are gay after all, but you don’t turn into anything else. You’re still a man-just now you only want relations with other men instead of heterosexual relations.
If you want to use ‘turn’ then it’s only an issue for me because some TIM believe they’ve ‘turned’ into women (AHF) and that’s untrue.