Sunak's Cabinet Changes

And he won't call himself English because he has nothing in common with most English people, except where he happened to be born.

I find that an odd thing to say.

English people are very diverse, they are not all alike!
And neither are Scottish people.

In fact, the Scots I know (whom I like and in one case was very fond of indeed) don't seem any different many English people I know.

I agree. Knowing that though, why on earth did Sunak appoint her?

Casdon

I can’t see what the point was though, why didn’t Braverman just resign if she had lost confidence in Truss, rather than invent an elaborate mistake? I think she did make a major error, which is why it surprises me that Sunak appointed her, when he knew it would cause controversy. Surely there was another far right candidate who hadn’t blotted their copybook, or he could have given Mordaunt Home Secretary and Braverman Chief Paper Clip Unwinder?

She is a security risk - simply that.

Labour going ask UC after PMQs requesting Braverman to make a statement.

Be surprised if she turns up tbh as Cooper will make mincemeat of her.

I can’t see what the point was though, why didn’t Braverman just resign if she had lost confidence in Truss, rather than invent an elaborate mistake? I think she did make a major error, which is why it surprises me that Sunak appointed her, when he knew it would cause controversy. Surely there was another far right candidate who hadn’t blotted their copybook, or he could have given Mordaunt Home Secretary and Braverman Chief Paper Clip Unwinder?

LizzieDrip

^I think Sunak did a deal with Braverman to get the loons ukippy types onside.^

Thanks WW. Again opinion here - whatever the series of events was, it would appear to involve much conniving and deal-making. Party politics over national interest!

He is going to live to regret it.

Remember when he said the first thing that he would do would be to appoint a government standards bod?

Pity he didn’t do it before bunging in Braverman.

And he hasn’t employed the standards commissioner yet either.

Prentice

paddyann54

Volver I'm surprised your OH doesn't consider himself a Scot,I have friends who have been here for much less time then that and they proudly say they were English,Greek,Slovakian BUT they are new Scots and wouldn't ever call themselves anything else .They all come to the Indy marches and are all a big part in their communities .One has 3 restaurants locally and one who has just gone to Glasgow uni in her 50's to study Scottish History.Out of those 3 the longest living here is 10 years

How can anybody who is English call themselves a Scot? It is simply untrue.They could call themselves an honorary Scot if they wanted to.
The people you refer to Paddyann54 have become British citizens presumably.

paddyann54 maybe I didn't explain myself properly, sorry.

My OH considers himself a Scot, but given that there is no such thing as Scottish nationality, except in our hearts (sentimental moment there ) he can't call himself "Scottish". And he won't call himself English because he has nothing in common with most English people, except where he happened to be born.

His mother lived in Scotland for over 60 years, but was convinced she would be "sent home" if we got independence and never took part in any clubs etc in Scotland because her view was that "as soon as I opened my mouth they'd know I was English". Like anybody would care. ?? Misguided, thinking, I believe.

My husband is proud to live in a country like Scotland, supports independence and wants to call himself Scottish, but he would be challenged by people who think like Prentice and have no idea what a new Scot is.

I think Sunak did a deal with Braverman to get the loons ukippy types onside.

Thanks WW. Again opinion here - whatever the series of events was, it would appear to involve much conniving and deal-making. Party politics over national interest!

LizzieDrip

Yes GrannyGravy. When the news broke about Braverman’s misdemeanour, experienced political commentators were clearly confused about why she had resigned. One even said ‘this wouldn’t normally be a resigning matter’ because it didn’t pose a security risk. But, of course, in order to use her resignation letter as a catalyst, she had to resign. I actually find it frightening that all this scheming may have been going on in the heart of government, while the UK is in the middle of an economic crisis!

No it was much more straight forward.

Braverman seriously breached the ministerial code twice, and was found out because she sent an e-mail containing ministerial document via her private gmail account in error to someone, who in turn reported it to the chief whip.

She then lied and denied, but all her lies fell apart immediately.

Truss had no choice but to sack her as a serious risk.

Now this next bit is opinion

I think Sunak did a deal with Braverman to get the loons ukippy types onside.

Yes indeed we have to give the element of time to the politicians in new posts,

I would drop the 'we', Prentice.

Fair enough if you want to give them more time but it is generally expected that experienced politicians should hit the ground running when appointed to ministerial posts and that includes the top jobs.

I, and others on this forum, expect competence from the start.

I do know what you mean, but was it ever so?

Unfortunately Prentice, I can only think in conspiracy theory terms these days. Nothing is ever as it seems any more.

paddyann54

Volver I'm surprised your OH doesn't consider himself a Scot,I have friends who have been here for much less time then that and they proudly say they were English,Greek,Slovakian BUT they are new Scots and wouldn't ever call themselves anything else .They all come to the Indy marches and are all a big part in their communities .One has 3 restaurants locally and one who has just gone to Glasgow uni in her 50's to study Scottish History.Out of those 3 the longest living here is 10 years

How can anybody who is English call themselves a Scot? It is simply untrue.They could call themselves an honorary Scot if they wanted to.
The people you refer to Paddyann54 have become British citizens presumably.

What a conspiracy theory Lizzydrip
We know that there was a breach of security, which indeed has happened many times by Ministers or junior staff over the years, but there was also a report of a loud argument going on between Ms Braverman and Liz Truss, so the former just had to resign.
Yes indeed we have to give the element of time to the politicians in new posts, and even to the ones already in those posts appointed by Liz Truss just weeks ago.
The markets are already recovering, which is good news too.
I think there is reason to hope that the economic situation, which will be hard here and elsewhere too, is at least in the hands of sensible people.Other views and opinions are available on this thread.That is what makes for interesting reading on Gransnet.

Yes GrannyGravy. When the news broke about Braverman’s misdemeanour, experienced political commentators were clearly confused about why she had resigned. One even said ‘this wouldn’t normally be a resigning matter’ because it didn’t pose a security risk. But, of course, in order to use her resignation letter as a catalyst, she had to resign. I actually find it frightening that all this scheming may have been going on in the heart of government, while the UK is in the middle of an economic crisis!

Volver I'm surprised your OH doesn't consider himself a Scot,I have friends who have been here for much less time then that and they proudly say they were English,Greek,Slovakian BUT they are new Scots and wouldn't ever call themselves anything else .They all come to the Indy marches and are all a big part in their communities .One has 3 restaurants locally and one who has just gone to Glasgow uni in her 50's to study Scottish History.Out of those 3 the longest living here is 10 years

In one LizzieDrip

I think sending the document from her personal email account was a deliberate act.

(According to news today it was the lowest of the low security wise, nothing incriminating for the Gov or U.K. security)

Ms,Truss was not the MP’s choice, and they wanted her gone PDQ.

Maya1

No l don't know any Albanians but there is a drug dealer in our street, who is British. The police know of him and have raider his house numerous times.
We Polish neighbours who are lovely and who about three years ago were treated appallingly. Dog poo and racist abuse put through their letter box.
I also know are Latvian/Russian couple through walking our dogs, who again have been the subject of racist abuse.
Surely we should treat people how we want to be treated ourselves and at least give them a chance.

Totally agree, I give all folks the benefit of the doubt.

There are good and bad in all sections of society.

I think the Braverman situation was set up to start the ball rolling to oust Truss, thereby opening the door for Sunak. Maybe Sunak promised her the home office job back if she went through with it. Here’s the timeline (IMO):

1. She ‘makes the mistake’ for which she (being a person of such high integrity) feels she has to resign.

2. In her resignation letter she is scathing towards Truss. This is the catalyst for the end of Truss.

3. Truss resigns.

4. Sunak becomes PM.

5. Braverman’s ‘mistake’ which, only a few days earlier had been a serious resignation matter, is no longer of any relevance… Braverman back at Home Office as promised.

The End (of us all)!

It’s got the basis of a fab Netflix series.

No l don't know any Albanians but there is a drug dealer in our street, who is British. The police know of him and have raider his house numerous times.
We Polish neighbours who are lovely and who about three years ago were treated appallingly. Dog poo and racist abuse put through their letter box.
I also know are Latvian/Russian couple through walking our dogs, who again have been the subject of racist abuse.
Surely we should treat people how we want to be treated ourselves and at least give them a chance.

Re-appointing Bravermann was a huge mistake.

I can never understand this 'let them settle in' or 'I'll wait to see what they do' stance.

None of these politicians are fresh from the egg. We know what they stand for. We can research their stance and their history and the friends they have kept. We can all watch the video of Sunak talking about taking funding from poorer areas to give it to more comfortable areas and also him referring to 'lefty lawyers'. As for Suella Braverman, the last month is measure of her.

When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.

Sunak is 42 and green behind the gills - and showing it. His choice of cabinet members shows his inexperience and political incompetence.

For all the grandiose statements by the Tory party of fresh start, bright future, etc, it will begin to show pretty soon the paucity of competence, integrity and compassion.

The British public are on to them, and will no longer be so easily fooled.

PMs should only been appointed once they have served at least 10 years in office and a level of maturity, fit for high office.

Sunak has neither.

If anyone is of the opinion, that because any Minister is a Conservative one, then ipso fact they must be no good at all, then that is that, just their opinion.

That's not the case Prentice and thinking that just shows some of the underdeveloped political analysis that some people are burdened with. Most of us think that these ministers are bad because they have had years in the job already and have shown themselves completely useless at it. Those who haven't been at the job for years (looking at you Suella) have manged to get themselves sacked after a few weeks for being a security risk.

Yet they are back.

Sunak had an opportunity to appoint a cabinet that would be good for Britain. But he's blown it, along with any good hopes any of us had for him.

I read that Guardian article - far from being impressed with new PM and his cabinet - it is saying exactly the opposite.

We now have a new(ish) cabinet of the extreme right of a right wing party. Telling us (the electorate - who they are totally unwilling to trust in a GE), how they are intending to clear up the mess that they, themselves, made!!!

Time to panic - we are doomed.....doomed!!!!!

DS says that Truss was considered one of the worst Environment Ministers ever.

I reckon her bestie Coffey will give her a run for her money.