Petition : *Update the Equality Act to make clear the characteristic “sex” is biological sex*

1. We don't teach about LGBTQ in primary school. Sometimes they simply ask questions or we hear then talking amongst themselves

2. Children often do not understand a concept straight away. We differentiate the learning too, because we need to find the best way for an individual child.

This was a misunderstanding and it has caused absolutely no harm at all

We also send home homework, parents also have responsibility here

Not knowing the context of the conversation it's difficult to know how the subject could have been addressed in a clearer way.

The child thinking that loving male and female relatives meant she was bi is what I mean by "a child's feelings being skewed".

Yes, you've put that very well Lathyrus and the post that first referred to this didn't say her family hadn't explained she'd misunderstood. It also made it quite clear where her confusion came from; it came from the TA.

Smileless2012

I am not suggesting that talking about gay or bi people will make someone bi or gay Glorianny. If you think I have perhaps you could provide an example.

You're right, I have no idea of the context of this particular conversation and neither do you, but if this was the result of a more informed child asking a question, then the TA should have been clear. They obviously weren't clearly so yes, it is their fault.

So please could you explain what "a child's feelings being skewed means" I'm afraid I don't understand.
Are you saying you would have preferred it if the TA had said "some people have sex with.."?

Glorianny

Smileless2012

And rightly so IMO if a child's feelings were being skewed by their teacher or teaching assistant.

OK here's reality.
Talking about gay people will not make a child gay
Talking about bi people will not make a child bi.
Talking about heterosexual people will not make a gay or bi child heterosexual.
I wonder why didn't the child's family explain to her that she had misunderstood a bit? Are they afraid to discuss sex with her? Is that one reason she misunderstood. That isn't the TA's fault. Another child more informed may have asked a question which the TA answered. You have no idea of the context of this conversation.

I agree with most of that except the bit about the TA.

Leaving a child confused about a concept is never good educational practice.

A good educationalist, having explained a concept, will always check back to make sure it has been understood. Usually by asking for it to be explained back to them.

So yes it was the TAs “fault” or “failing” is preferable. A failing in good practice.

As in example, I've explained to children many times that girls can do anything when boy has told me girls can't do xyz.

But the belief that girls can't do xyz is not protected under the equality act. Neither is the belief that boys can't marry boys or girls can't marry girls. They legally can and if a child tells me they can't, of course I would be allowed to say that's not true

Doodledog

*They ignored him because he was fat and trans.*

It’s a very sad and very strange case, but this is a bit of a leap. The finding that ‘gender assumptions can be detrimental in hospitals’ is not saying that at all. What is the basis for your arrival at that conclusion?

From the article
When the 32-year-old man arrived at the hospital with severe abdominal pains, a nurse did not consider it an emergency, noting the man was obese
They administered a pregnancy test so they didn't think he was male they knew he was trans. They thought he was fat.

I am not suggesting that talking about gay or bi people will make someone bi or gay Glorianny. If you think I have perhaps you could provide an example.

You're right, I have no idea of the context of this particular conversation and neither do you, but if this was the result of a more informed child asking a question, then the TA should have been clear. They obviously weren't clearly so yes, it is their fault.

Yes Glorianny
OK here's reality.
You have no idea of the context of this conversation. I couldn’t have put it better.

I'm hoping more agree with you glorianny

Smileless2012

And rightly so IMO if a child's feelings were being skewed by their teacher or teaching assistant.

OK here's reality.
Talking about gay people will not make a child gay
Talking about bi people will not make a child bi.
Talking about heterosexual people will not make a gay or bi child heterosexual.
I wonder why didn't the child's family explain to her that she had misunderstood a bit? Are they afraid to discuss sex with her? Is that one reason she misunderstood. That isn't the TA's fault. Another child more informed may have asked a question which the TA answered. You have no idea of the context of this conversation.

Having read through my post upthread, I can see that it reads as though I think Galaxy would respond like that, which was not, of course, my intention. It is how the 'trans allies' would respond. Sorry, Galaxy if you were taken aback .

Children express many things. “When I grow up I’m going to be my mum” or “be my dad.”
“When I grow up I’m going to marry you because you’re beautiful!”
I heard it on Wednesday. 🤣🤣
I don’t think that needs explaining at all when children are young enough to make those comments.
Unless it’s something dangerous, and that isn’t, I would see explaining as telling them they’re wrong, rather than letting them grow into understanding.

I have no idea of a better way to explain this to you

What does having gay teachers have to do with a 9 year old following a conversation with a teachers assistant, announcing to her family that she's bi because of what the ta said?

There's nothing funny about it VS. It's a fact isn't it but it also a fact that loving both boys and girls doesn't mean you are or are likely to be bi.

We also have gay teachers

Is it not OK for them to tell children aged 9 that they are marrying someone of the same sex?

Are we going backwards on those battles now?

So many children misunderrstand the concept of marriage and say they want ro marry a parent one day because they love them.

Do we blame the concept of marriage or do we just explain they have misunderstood and one day they will fall in love in a different way to how they love their parents

Smileless2012

I don't think parent blaming is appropriate in this instance as it wasn't a parent who expressed a funny idea and confused this 9 year old.

What is funny about saying people can love boys or girls or both?

They ignored him because he was fat and trans.

It’s a very sad and very strange case, but this is a bit of a leap. The finding that ‘gender assumptions can be detrimental in hospitals’ is not saying that at all. What is the basis for your arrival at that conclusion?

I don't think parent blaming is appropriate in this instance as it wasn't a parent who expressed a funny idea and confused this 9 year old.

Galaxy

Its utterly inaccurate to say gender critical people havent found solutions, in many schools the materials from transgender trend are used, they were set up to challenge the narrative of young peoples bodies being wrong. There have been court cases to ensure that discussion took place on womens rights, the continuous support of the detransitioners, the support of women in prison and in refuges, the endless campaigning about sport by some brave athletes.

I didn’t say they haven’t found solutions, just that it is unreasonable to expect them to do so, and have the alternative presented as letting men and transwomen do as they wish until women find a solution that is acceptable to the men/transwomen.

So, I say I don’t want men in women’s spaces (and bear in mind that safe spaces for women are pretty thin on the ground). You say ‘so how will you police it?. I say ‘I won’t - I’m not a police officer. The comeback is then, ‘Oh! So you want a police officer on every door of every Ladies’ loo, do you? Do you want them to check genitals?’ A ridiculous scenario is presented, with the alternative to that scenario being that men continue to use the Ladies with no way of separating the ones who just want a wee from the ones on the prowl.

The next defence is to suggest that over time, public buildings will have three sets of loos, which in practice means that the urinals will stay, the Ladies (which tend to already cater for disabled people and children of both sexes) will be carved up further to accommodate ‘gender neutral’ facilities. Any concerns about the unfairness of that are batted back with sneers about not wanting ‘solutions’. No, it’s just that that solution solves very little for those who used to be women.

My point is that if men/transwomen want to use the Ladies’ they should find a solution, and find it before altering the status quo to suit themselves.

I've never met a 9 year old who didn't already know that people can choose who they love regardless of sex.

I've met some who had funny ideas about that from their parents

Exactly FarNorth and no parent should have to worry that it may be happening when they are at school, especially from a member of the teaching staff.

The point VS is that no-one should have been talking to young children in that confusing way.