Is Britain Broken?

Underclass does not refer to those who through no fault of their own are unable to work because of disability or ill health. I use the term to mean those who are fit and able but are too lazy to try or the irresponsible people who have children they can't afford or can't be bothered with. I am well aware of many like that where I live. Pretending such people don't exist is total nonsense.

I feel so angry reading *skydancers" post.

There are people without "pride or ambition" in every rung of society. it may be illness: it may be poor parenting, abusive even.

but if its combined with lack of access to the help, support, the sense of possibilities, all the practical matters of resourcing growing up, and even hope that the better off have in family life, then the chances of "Getting out" are harder.

People from every background try to "take advantage" of the system and some do very well, like government ministers taking handouts of giving buddies handouts.

But the ones that you are calling out are the very ones least able to "make something of themselves.

shame on you.

Underclass is a pejorative term, it’s the modern way of saying the undeserving poor. It stinks.

Underclass is a term that is used by some people to describe those on the bottom rung. If you don't like it don't use it but I don't think you can complain if others choose to.

It is awful that we have a bottom rung at all especially if it includes families with children, anyone forced onto the streets for whatever reason etc..

Mamardoit

If it was a racist comment we would report it and have it deleted.

I can't understand why anyone takes offence at more general comments. We have no idea about the life experiences of other posters, where they live or who they come into contact with.

I would never say people have no brains. I would be very wary of calling someone ignorant too. But saying people have no pride or ambition? Yes I do know people who fit into that category.

That wasn’t exactly what was said though was it Mamardoit? Referring to any section of society as an underclass is deeply offensive and can’t be mitigated or dressed up.

If it was a racist comment we would report it and have it deleted.

I can't understand why anyone takes offence at more general comments. We have no idea about the life experiences of other posters, where they live or who they come into contact with.

I would never say people have no brains. I would be very wary of calling someone ignorant too. But saying people have no pride or ambition? Yes I do know people who fit into that category.

Mamardoit. Yes, Skydancer does of course have the right to post what she wishes even if it makes her look ignorant, but I have the right to dislike what is posted. Meducks.

There are limits to the level of offence that can be caused by posts. No place for racism for example.

I’m another who finds it offensive to describe members of our society as ‘An underclass with no brains, no pride and no ambition …etc’. Yes, Skydancer, you have the right to post this. I wonder about the lack of understanding or compassion you display . Also, how you reach these damning conclusions. Do you know this underclass well?

HousePlantQueen

Skydancer

The good times seem to be over but what has really caused the decline? I am ashamed that we have foodbanks and people sleeping on the streets. We are definitely over-populated and don't need any more people. The roads are crowded. Rents are ridiculously high. We have an underclass with no brains, no pride and no ambition. Many can't be bothered to work in manual jobs and many just want something for nothing. Sorry if this offends anyone but we all know it's true.

You bet it offends, it really offends me! Nasty, ill informed comments have no place on here.

Sorry but anyone can post on here. None of us have the right to say what can be posted even if it offends you. I disagree with some posts. That's life meduck.

Sorry skydancer that’s a total cop out saying we don’t need more people here we need thousands more workers the NHS is on its knees partly due to nurses, doctors and other workers leaving in droves We have always relied on overseas workers from fruit picking upwards
Instead of keeping (often professional people) locked up in inadequate prison like, conditions refugees should be allowed to work and pay taxes But this right right (but very wrong) government would rather waste billion in trying to fly them to other countries or keep them incarcerated

The NHS waiting list position is indisputably much, much worse now than it has ever been. It’s not just due to Covid or Brexit. Look particularly at the period since 2012.
www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resource/chart-of-the-week-how-has-the-waiting-list-changed-over-the-years

I agree Aveline, there probably never has been a golden age, apart from perhaps in the fantasies of some Brexit voters who were looking backward to some mythical age, but it has to be acknowledged that many services which we have all become used to, have definatily got worse, the NHS being the most obvious. Yes, we are all aware of the great work, of the lengths the staff go to, but we are also all too aware of the 12 hour waits for ambulances, the lack of home care, of people waiting in great discomfort on ever lengthening waiting lists. It seems to me that most public services are held together by the good will and unpaid overtime of the staff, whether it be teachers, nurses or doctors, and everything else we need is being provided by an army of volunteers wo run foodbanks, clothing banks, run clubs for children, for the elderly. Worthwhile though this is (and I am such a volunteer), it should be supplementing, not replacing state provision.

I don't ever remember a golden age when everything was fine and everybody was well enough off to somehow cope. Working in NHS we were always underpaid and under funded. My pay was frozen for years at a time. I know things are bad right now but I still remember the three day week and all that led up to that.
Scotland is a shambles with a very poor government with a very large PR department. Please don't believe all the spin put out by the nationalists.
The UK is stumbling through a particularly bad few years thanks to Covid and the war in Ukraine. The Tory government has run its course and it's time they left. Time for a new Labour government.

Skydancer

The good times seem to be over but what has really caused the decline? I am ashamed that we have foodbanks and people sleeping on the streets. We are definitely over-populated and don't need any more people. The roads are crowded. Rents are ridiculously high. We have an underclass with no brains, no pride and no ambition. Many can't be bothered to work in manual jobs and many just want something for nothing. Sorry if this offends anyone but we all know it's true.

An underclass ? OMG. you do realise what that sounds like don’t you ?

Margiknot
Using your NHS analogy I believe the patient is dead.

Not broken but currently decidedly wounded and in need of repair. Don't think the current government has the expertise or will to fix it.

Britain certainly isn't working very well at the moment! I feel in some ways life in the UK has regressed, back about 30- 50 years but without the local/ community support that was around then. We have come to expect better. Most of us on here will have grown up without central heating, ice on the inside of windows, with cold fingers and feet growing our own veg in the garden/ allotment, but have now got used to modern heating, supermarkets with a wide variety of foods no matter the season and having (with care) enough to eat. Some now can only get enough to eat with help from a food banks.
A heart attack was likely to lead to death back then (even if the GP ran around to try and help) as there was little effective treatment- now there is better medical knowledge, and automated defibrillators and for some emergency surgery to unblock cardiac vessels that can save people that could not have been saved a few decades back - but the hold up now is getting an ambulance. Without school dinners and school milk (warmed in winter next to the classroom coal heater) many of us would have been hungrier and colder as children - and once again many families struggle to afford nutritious meals for their families. I could go on!!
However, I don't think Britain is irremediably broken- it could be recovered with a bit of realism at the top.

Skydancer

The good times seem to be over but what has really caused the decline? I am ashamed that we have foodbanks and people sleeping on the streets. We are definitely over-populated and don't need any more people. The roads are crowded. Rents are ridiculously high. We have an underclass with no brains, no pride and no ambition. Many can't be bothered to work in manual jobs and many just want something for nothing. Sorry if this offends anyone but we all know it's true.

You bet it offends, it really offends me! Nasty, ill informed comments have no place on here.

The good times seem to be over but what has really caused the decline? I am ashamed that we have foodbanks and people sleeping on the streets. We are definitely over-populated and don't need any more people. The roads are crowded. Rents are ridiculously high. We have an underclass with no brains, no pride and no ambition. Many can't be bothered to work in manual jobs and many just want something for nothing. Sorry if this offends anyone but we all know it's true.

HPQ I know, it’s like we are being gaslit to think we are back in the 1940s.

I agree, every public service in this country is on the bones of its ar*e. I am becoming increasingly annoyed by the normalisation of penny pinching measures, earnest people on the TV telling us how to feed a family with one tin of corned beef and two carrots (alright, an exaggeration), extolling the virtues of spending your evenings wrapped up in some ghastly polyester blanket as you drink tea from a thermos, made with your boiled once a day kettle. I KNOW some people are having to live like this, but why are we carrying on as if it is acceptable, normal even?

LizzieDrip

Grayling1 and Granny23 yes I hear of many things that promote social justice in Scotland more so than England. I often wonder about moving to Scotland before you become independent (and rejoin the EU) - there’ll be no chance afterwards I suppose

You would be very welcome in underpopulated Scotland right NOW. that's as long as you promise to vote for Independence once you are resident. I think that you are right in that after Scotland becomes Independent and rejoins the EU (or EFTA) that house prices will soar as many disgruntled Brits will want to move here.

Grayling1 and Granny23 yes I hear of many things that promote social justice in Scotland more so than England. I often wonder about moving to Scotland before you become independent (and rejoin the EU) - there’ll be no chance afterwards I suppose

You are right about the NHS. Nexus63 it is still brilliant IMO. My husband and one of my DGC certainly wouldn't be here without it. We are lucky with our GP surgery. They were excellent through covid and we can get same day appointments. The ambulance service is a worry in rural areas and waiting lists are longer again.

i am 59 and live in glasgow, i have had a lot of health problems over the last 5 years, my nhs has been brilliant, even during covid i still got face to face appointments. i live on benefits of £244 per fortnight, i get my rent paid and that includes the bedroom tax that the scottish goverment pay. i do not have any savings. i try to live as cheaply as possible and have only had a halogen heater on a few times, i will get through this winter like everyone else with blankets and hot water bottles, early nights with the electric blanket on that costs 3p an hour. i don't think this country is broken, it is damaged, but compared to some other countries we are doing well. we have a free nhs and for most people it does work, we have benefits, bus and rail services and shops with food. i worry for my son and his family in the future, but at the moment we have to get on with what we do have.