Couple on £7000 a month benefits……….

I think it is likely that this horrendously disfunctional family actually do exist.

But there is no doubt that they are being exploited for political purposes by the right wing media.

I wonder how many investigative journalists are employed to root out these classic examples of extreme disfunction which can be used to reinforce whatever political message might cause outrage?

Beckett

Yes, Lathyrus - I remember the school nurse and regular check ups with her, don't think parents were ever asked for permission as the whole class used to line up waiting their turn

Nitty Nora the head explorer visited often. She also checked for scabies. We had a real canny one who arrived just at the end of P.E lessons she offered to help dress and gave the ones whom she thought needed it a good examination. Just not allowed these days, even the magic cream made by the fairies, Savalon was banned.

There are photographs in the newspapers (several) varian so I do actually believe this dysfunctional family did exist. I’m glad help has swooped in (finally - how much angst did it take to make decisions here?).

I don’t care about the money. It’s a drop in the taxpayer’s ocean in reality. I do care however that on so many levels these poor children were failed/slipped through the net. What little person sleeps on a sofa next to a dead dog covered on animal faeces?

Where were the teachers in all this? It was FAR FROM normal in that home.
What went through the mind of the 17y old sibling?
The mum with her pink hair streaks? Hello?? Did she not have family/friends/neighbours?
It beggars belief to be honest.
Baby clinic/health visitor/nurse at immunisation appointment?
Universal Credit department? Does NO-ONE drop into see how ‘things are’ any more?
Have we become/Are we / such a hands-off society now?

Don't get me started on the abandonment of Sure Start - it fills me with fury.

There are families as dysfunctional as this one - I have worked with them. But they would not have slipped through the net at one time, as this family clearly has.

Urmstongran

There are photographs in the newspapers (several) varian so I do actually believe this dysfunctional family did exist. I’m glad help has swooped in (finally - how much angst did it take to make decisions here?).

I don’t care about the money. It’s a drop in the taxpayer’s ocean in reality. I do care however that on so many levels these poor children were failed/slipped through the net. What little person sleeps on a sofa next to a dead dog covered on animal faeces?

Where were the teachers in all this? It was FAR FROM normal in that home.
What went through the mind of the 17y old sibling?
The mum with her pink hair streaks? Hello?? Did she not have family/friends/neighbours?
It beggars belief to be honest.
Baby clinic/health visitor/nurse at immunisation appointment?
Universal Credit department? Does NO-ONE drop into see how ‘things are’ any more?
Have we become/Are we / such a hands-off society now?

I read in one paper (can't remember which one) that in fact teachers were worried and did contact the appropriate authorities - but it would appear that their concerns were not followed up. Or, if they were, obviously with little effect.
It's a bit of a familiar story now isn't it?

How on earth could a family living in such squalor - with over 30 dogs (that just boggles my mind) in the house - evade notice? There must have been others apart from the teachers who were aware of the fact that something was not right.

I don't think anyone does 'drop in' anymore, those days are long gone. When my mother worked as a district nurse (50s/60s), she would sometimes do just that on her way past one of her patients (probably called "service users" or even "customers" now) just for five minutes to see how they were - I'm not sure that would even be allowed in the present climate.

How many more children are going to suffer before it's decided that the system is literally failing them?

Mental health issues are recognised as very complex, these days, and rightly so.

I do think ot can lead to so many departments having some input, that things get missed.

Varian This case is reported on the official Sussex Police web site www.sussex.police.uk/news/sussex/news/court-results/eastbourne-couple-jailed-for-child-neglect/

I doubt they would post the story, complete with corroborative detail that is the same as that in the papers, if it was not true. The only thing they do not mention is the value of their benefits, but as the Judge at the trial specifically mentioned those www.theargus.co.uk/news/23106788.couple-paid-7-000-month-benefits-jailed-child-neglect/ She is quoted verbatim, I am sorry but you will have to accept that the story in its entirety is true.

There must have been so many people who would surely have alerted the authorities
Apart from teachers, what about neighbours, both sets of grandparents, other family members ?

It beggars belief that all the concerns voiced were ignored.

Varian
If this family don’t exist I think the man in the handcuffs getting out of the paddy wagon has a case against the police, wouldn’t you think?

Those poor children. How can that go unnoticed by anyone?

Varian Are you suggesting that the appalling child and animal neglect case that is the centre of this case is a run of the mill case? Happening all the time, all over the place, nothing particulalrly special?

I quote you But there is no doubt that they are being exploited for political purposes by the right wing media. I wonder how many investigative journalists are employed to root out these classic examples of extreme disfunction which can be used to reinforce whatever political message might cause outrage?

The purpose of journalism is to seek out horrendous cases like this and make them public to ensure that the issues they present are publicly known and the authorities do not try and brush their failings unde a carpet.

To try and see a political motive in reporting this case, is completely shocking, papers across the political spectrum have reported this case and it is on other media as well. There have been serious failings that this family were not picked up earlier and trying to pretend it is just a political issue, is to deny the real and terrible sufferings of these children.

I used to have a lot of respect for your views even when I did not agree with them. But no longer.

The only political relevance I see in this dreadful case, is the one linked to 12 years of austerity. I’m not blaming any agency or individual, the parents are responsible for the extreme neglect of their children.
It seems there may be an injunction in place preventing the publication of evidence about the neglect of these children by all agencies. As Miss Adventure commented earlier, sometimes the involvement of multiple agencies leads to poorly co-ordinated responses by the key agencies with responsibility for safeguarding.
The police responded at 11.40pm to an ‘incident of domestic violence’. I read the father dialled 999 and said he was going to kill the mother. The fact so many officers were sent suggests the family was well known and the police decided to use its protective powers. No doubt an inquiry is to take place

Quite separately from the horrors of this case, I wonder whether people should have to apply to have more than a set number of pets? Obviously 35 or 37 (numbers seem to vary) of dogs is a rare occurrence, but people do have four dogs or five cats, which seems too many for a lot of people to care for properly. It must be hell for neighbours to live next door to that, the animals are very likely to suffer, and in many cases there are probably mental health issues, too.

I don't know which agencies could take that on, though, and in this age of cutbacks it will probably never happen.

Doodledog

Quite separately from the horrors of this case, I wonder whether people should have to apply to have more than a set number of pets? Obviously 35 or 37 (numbers seem to vary) of dogs is a rare occurrence, but people do have four dogs or five cats, which seems too many for a lot of people to care for properly. It must be hell for neighbours to live next door to that, the animals are very likely to suffer, and in many cases there are probably mental health issues, too.

I don't know which agencies could take that on, though, and in this age of cutbacks it will probably never happen.

I think that's a valid point Doodledog.

35 / 37 dogs in a house that is built for human habitation is utterly ridiculous. And, as someone else pointed out, dogs are pack animals and that makes them dangerous.

I don't know how many (or few) agencies were involved with this family but it is one big, fat FAIL. This really does need investigating. But I can already hear the incantations... "missed opportunities", "lessons will be learned", etc.

I know this is an extreme case, but how many more times do we have to read about the neglect, abuse and even murder of innocent children before someone - anyone - among these multi-disciplinary agencies stands up and admits the system, such as it is, simply does not work?

I was saying that over 20 years ago when no action could be taken with a family until the “multidisciplinary agency” meeting had taken place. Getting representatives from all agencies together was going to take nearly three months!

It was a measure put in place to ensure all agencies were fully informed and working together but it’s one thing that definitely isn’t working.

I wonder though if people would be prepared to accept more authority in their lives, like the school nurse who could examine a child without having to gain parental consent? It’s a difficult balance. But if we don’t allow power to act we shouldn’t be surprised when action doesn’t happen.

People on here prating about the right-wing press have no idea about how hard it is to take meaningful action in cases of neglect such as this one. Highly unlikely that the parents would have attended Surestart or any other parental group, allowed home visits from health services, schools, attendance officers and social workers, or drop-in visits from any type of professional; they have the right to refuse entry and they are skilled at avoiding 'interference'. The police had to break into the house when called about a domestic incident. It is the law which needs strengthening, not more help.
Meetings of representatives of all concerned parties such as police, school, health, welfare, social services etc, etc, are co ordinated and reports submitted, nineteen people at the last one I attended, only for the principals not to attend and the whole meeting negated. The school would have been doing plenty, Urmstongran, as well as trying to do their job of educating the children in their care, the attendance officer would have visited and been refused admittance, neighbours would have complained, but as Dickens wrote earlier the style now is to work with the dysfunctional family and the parents control the action. The children were discouraged from attending school, and so much credence is given to school refusal and home education it is difficult to overcome this.
I am watching a family I was involved with 22 years ago repeating the process of keeping children at home, and attempts to work with them by the school, social services and their grandmother are met with a barrage of accusations and lies.
Until you have worked with these families you have no idea how hard, sometimes impossible it is to achieve anything and how complicated the process is.

I wonder though if people would be prepared to accept more authority in their lives, like the school nurse who could examine a child without having to gain parental consent? It’s a difficult balance. But if we don’t allow power to act we shouldn’t be surprised when action doesn’t happen.

You're right. It is a difficult balance, as people have different lines in the sand. I would have no problem with a school nurse, for instance (assuming that they could do their checks without the public humiliation of the past ), but object to rules about what children can have in lunchboxes or staff feeling that they have a right to make decisions outside of the curriculum that contradict how parents bring up their children. Other people may disagree with all of that, and none of us would be right or wrong.

Children need to be protected, but from harm, not from views or practices with which individual staff disagree.

That sounds both relentless and depressing, easybee .

If resources were no object, how do you think situations like that could best be solved?

Is it just me who wonders whether life has always been like this for this family, or whether it’s deteriorated rapidly in the last few years? I wonder if the man is the father of the children, and why a woman who previously was capable of running a dance school would let her children and house suffer that level of neglect - there’s more to it than we have been told I think.

eazybee

People on here prating about the right-wing press have no idea about how hard it is to take meaningful action in cases of neglect such as this one. Highly unlikely that the parents would have attended Surestart or any other parental group, allowed home visits from health services, schools, attendance officers and social workers, or drop-in visits from any type of professional; they have the right to refuse entry and they are skilled at avoiding 'interference'. The police had to break into the house when called about a domestic incident. It is the law which needs strengthening, not more help.
Meetings of representatives of all concerned parties such as police, school, health, welfare, social services etc, etc, are co ordinated and reports submitted, nineteen people at the last one I attended, only for the principals not to attend and the whole meeting negated. The school would have been doing plenty, Urmstongran, as well as trying to do their job of educating the children in their care, the attendance officer would have visited and been refused admittance, neighbours would have complained, but as Dickens wrote earlier the style now is to work with the dysfunctional family and the parents control the action. The children were discouraged from attending school, and so much credence is given to school refusal and home education it is difficult to overcome this.
I am watching a family I was involved with 22 years ago repeating the process of keeping children at home, and attempts to work with them by the school, social services and their grandmother are met with a barrage of accusations and lies.
Until you have worked with these families you have no idea how hard, sometimes impossible it is to achieve anything and how complicated the process is.

Your post would seem to indicate that it is the system that is not working as opposed to the lack of care by all those agencies involved.

the style now is to work with the dysfunctional family and the parents control the action

In which case it's obvious that the staff, SWs, etc, have their hands tied behind their backs - if the parents are in control, if they dictate the narrative, can refuse entry, etc, they are clearly able to manipulate the way the whole system functions.

It's fine in theory to talk about 'rights' and human rights are important, but what do you do when those rights are abused to the point where children become victims of neglect and abuse, and much worse? They - the children - have no voice no control. At what point do we decide that their safety is paramount? Because if their parents don't, can't, or won't protect them, someone has to.

Maybe the 'nanny state' really does need to be a 'nanny' on some rare occasions.

Simple really, we make sure that our “rights” are enforced

Isn’t it about time “responsibilities” are enforced

Authority should be able to intervene much sooner, many other cases too.

Just wondered about the 35 dogs it says in one account that their dogs had puppies in lockdown. Dogs only have 3 months gestation period, then at 6 months those puppies can get pregnant. Doesn't take long if you don't separate the sexes to get to 35.
When I first started teaching there was a school clinic in the very deprived area I was in. I sent children there when they presented with untreated dirty wounds or skin complaints. The nit nurse was based there. The children came back to school after their visit cleaner and with appropriate treatment. No parent complained. Now they wouldn't be allowed to leave the school, there would be x number of forms to fill in, y number of people to inform and huge amounts of red tape.
Those children also had free milk and free school dinners

According to the UK gov website there is no way they could get £7000 a month in benefits.
www.gov.uk/benefit-cap/benefit-cap-amounts

The judge accepted that their income was £7,000 a month, all from 'benfits' and judges are usually very careful that anything they say like that is verifiable.

Could they have been getting funds for assistance from other sources? What still hasnt been explained is what all this money was being spent on, as it clearly wasn't being spent on the children and as taxpayers it seems reasonable to broadly expect money given to people to help them care for their family should be spent on that.

Clearly a lot went on the adult males back. he was wearing fashionable and expensive clothes and was impeccably groomed. But eeven so that would only account for about one of the seven thousands every month.

vampirequeen

According to the UK gov website there is no way they could get £7000 a month in benefits.
www.gov.uk/benefit-cap/benefit-cap-amounts

Yes, they could.

www.gov.uk/benefit-cap/when-youre-not-affected

It's possible that they receive disability payments for the children and/or one of them is working. The cap only applies if all adults are unemployed.