What will happen to Conservatism and where will it go from here.

What’s a S*n banquet?
Keir Starmer can’t be a Tory just because he has dinner with less than saintly people in your view.
I have no idea where Conservatism is going except down the pan.Even if Sunak does his best, they are out in two years.

Grany

Labour leader attends a S*n banquet, watches football with arms dealers, and receives praise for his immigration plans from Nigel Farage all in the space of 24 shameful hours.

An establishment bootlicking Tory named Keir Starmer.

rachaelswindon.blogspot.com/2022/11/starmers-new-low-24-hours-of_26.html?m=1

You know what, Grany.

'Hold your friends close and your enemies closer'

(source debatable; either Sun Tzu, Chinese author of the Art of War; Machiavelli, The Prince, or the scriptwriter of The Godfather )

Good advice...

Labour leader attends a S*n banquet, watches football with arms dealers, and receives praise for his immigration plans from Nigel Farage all in the space of 24 shameful hours.

An establishment bootlicking Tory named Keir Starmer.

rachaelswindon.blogspot.com/2022/11/starmers-new-low-24-hours-of_26.html?m=1

I don't care where it goes so long as it leaves for good.

Dinahmo

It is shocking. I hope that all Tory voters read and inwardly digest this list and don't vote for them at the next election.

Your bias is showing Dinahmo. Some will vote for them because they agree with what they stand for.

paddyann54

Look north DaisyAnne here we have Tories and LABOUR in coalition ,all in an effort to keep the people who were elected in councils out of power .Now that is just not right .
The SNP /Scottish government is by far the most left leaning party in the "UK".Thats why they have won election after election after election .Ms Sturgeon is still in the job ,now on her 5th PM !!
One such coalition, just last week, voted down the supplying of defribrillators to all the schools in their area ???
My very good friend started this initiative and these life saving pieces of equipment were initially installed in empty telephone kiosks ,now they can be found in most public spaces and have saved countless lives .
The political ethos of these Red/Blue Tories it seems is more important than lives....but we knew that !

I'm not sure how you can form a coalition if one party has a majority nor why you addressed this to me. However, I am sorry you feel so cross about whatever it is that has upset you.

Isabel Oakeshott separated from her husband and began a relationship with businessman, and future Reform UK leader, Richard Tice.

It seems that the so=called "Reform UK" Party is far to the right of the Conservative Party, even to the right of the Brexit Party, but a great favorite of the Brexit Broadcasting Corporation's flagship political program Question Time.

HousePlantQueen

Fleurpepper

The ERG is the massive elephant in the room- and it is time we all knew who they are, who pulls their strings, and why- and what their real aims are.

Agreed, especially as we all pay their membership fees which they claim on expenses. Around £2000 per annum I believe. Some are very obvious members, people like Francois, Baker, Rees-Mogg, Braverman, Patel, Jenkins but others are more low key.

Talking of Isabel Oakeshott, as a pp was; this was on her Twitter feed this morning;

^What is the point of the Tories? They've lost control of our borders, lost control of law and order, can't run the NHS and are taxing us to high heaven. We routinely have no trains, tubes or ambulances. They deserve political oblivion^

So, they are simply not far enough to the right for her. I'm not surprised.

She is right that they deserve political oblivion though.

One of the past members listed is my MP David Warburton, who was, at the beginning of April, accused of sexual assault by three different women, taking class A drugs,- and corruption and nepotism involving a very dodgy Russian, deemed an unfit person to be involved in financial services.

He had the Tory whip with drawn after pictures of him looking spaced out with what appeared to be lines of cocaine and lurid accounts of his sexual antics appeared all over the Sunday papers, but seven months later the voters of Somerton and Frome have not had the opportunity to kick him out in a by-election.

Why not? Is he being protected by the ERG?

I would like to think that Starmer can control his extremists but I’m very cynical concerning politicians, however a week is a long time in politics and we have a whole 2 yrs of uncertainty.

Katie59 says of left wing Labour "Of course they don’t, finally they have got the message that until they are elected they have no influence, they will have their say when they win a GE."

I really don't think that Katie needs to worry, Keir Starmer is doing his best to make sure that there will not really be any left wingers in any Government of his.

As paddyann54 describes in the post of 13.35pm, Labour would rather join with Tories to prevent left wing policies.

Oakeshott is a vile individual, and I realise that she is disappointed in the Tories for very different reasons to most of us. What is interesting is her acknowledgement that the extreme right wing are unhappy with the Tories. That is good news for the more 'woke' amongst us.

It is shocking. I hope that all Tory voters read and inwardly digest this list and don't vote for them at the next election.

That list is quite shocking, varian. Who do these people think they are, to take our money and try to remain secret? I despair of this country.

Fleurpepper

The ERG is the massive elephant in the room- and it is time we all knew who they are, who pulls their strings, and why- and what their real aims are.

Here are the Tory MPs who are paying taxpayer cash to the European Research Group

leftfootforward.org/2021/08/here-are-the-tory-mps-who-are-paying-tax-payer-cash-to-the-european-research-group/

Note how many ERGs have been involved in scandals. Have they been shielded by the ERG?

growstuff

HousePlantQueen

Fleurpepper

The ERG is the massive elephant in the room- and it is time we all knew who they are, who pulls their strings, and why- and what their real aims are.

Agreed, especially as we all pay their membership fees which they claim on expenses. Around £2000 per annum I believe. Some are very obvious members, people like Francois, Baker, Rees-Mogg, Braverman, Patel, Jenkins but others are more low key.

Talking of Isabel Oakeshott, as a pp was; this was on her Twitter feed this morning;

^What is the point of the Tories? They've lost control of our borders, lost control of law and order, can't run the NHS and are taxing us to high heaven. We routinely have no trains, tubes or ambulances. They deserve political oblivion^

Be careful what you wish for! Don't forget that Oakeshott is the OH of Reform UK's Richard Tice.

I was tempted to respond to a retweet of that tweet with:

'What's the point of Isabel Oakshott?'

She seems to be totally oblivious to the fact that it is the party she supports/supported that has brought us to this condition over the past 12 years...

HousePlantQueen

Fleurpepper

The ERG is the massive elephant in the room- and it is time we all knew who they are, who pulls their strings, and why- and what their real aims are.

Agreed, especially as we all pay their membership fees which they claim on expenses. Around £2000 per annum I believe. Some are very obvious members, people like Francois, Baker, Rees-Mogg, Braverman, Patel, Jenkins but others are more low key.

Talking of Isabel Oakeshott, as a pp was; this was on her Twitter feed this morning;

^What is the point of the Tories? They've lost control of our borders, lost control of law and order, can't run the NHS and are taxing us to high heaven. We routinely have no trains, tubes or ambulances. They deserve political oblivion^

Be careful what you wish for! Don't forget that Oakeshott is the OH of Reform UK's Richard Tice.

Caleo

Thanks Growstuff. I think I was mistaken mainly because I presumed there was a feeling for ideological socialism in Britain as on Continent.

The Labour Party grew out of trade unionism, Fabianism and non-conformist religious beliefs. It grew to represent the newly politically franchised electorate and has always been a coalition of beliefs. It's never been a Marxist party.

Look north DaisyAnne here we have Tories and LABOUR in coalition ,all in an effort to keep the people who were elected in councils out of power .Now that is just not right .
The SNP /Scottish government is by far the most left leaning party in the "UK".Thats why they have won election after election after election .Ms Sturgeon is still in the job ,now on her 5th PM !!
One such coalition, just last week, voted down the supplying of defribrillators to all the schools in their area ???
My very good friend started this initiative and these life saving pieces of equipment were initially installed in empty telephone kiosks ,now they can be found in most public spaces and have saved countless lives .
The political ethos of these Red/Blue Tories it seems is more important than lives....but we knew that !

Thanks Growstuff. I think I was mistaken mainly because I presumed there was a feeling for ideological socialism in Britain as on Continent.

DaisyAnne

Katie59

Politics seems to be polarizing just like the US, the right wing holding the Tories in their grip and very likely the left wing Labour. Unless there is a miracle Labour will win the next GE, that does not mean the ERG will go away, they will bide their time until the next opportunity. It doesnt take a large group to hold the leader to ransome

I don't know where your view of the current Labour Party comes from Katie but perhaps I can guess.

To me the current Labour party is mainly democratic socialist with a minority of radical left. We certainly hear from the extreme left (including on here), but they seem to have very little power within this current iteration of Labour.

Of course they don’t, finally they have got the message that until they are elected they have no influence, they will have their say when they win a GE.

MaizieD

Katie59

Politics seems to be polarizing just like the US, the right wing holding the Tories in their grip and very likely the left wing Labour. Unless there is a miracle Labour will win the next GE, that does not mean the ERG will go away, they will bide their time until the next opportunity. It doesnt take a large group to hold the leader to ransome

Labour is doing it's best to disassociate itself from the 'left wing'. Though as people seem to differ wildly over what they think constitutes 'left wing' it's hard to tell just where it is at the moment.

I assume by your use of the word 'miracle', Katie59, that you don't really want to see a Labour party in power?

I think that, unless the tories come up with a radical change of plan for the economy. they will be wiped out at the next GE and a great many of the ERG group will lose their seats.

I hope that Labour will carry out their promise to reform the House of Lords and get rid of many of Johnson's corrupt crony appointments.

It is utterly ridiculous that there are more peers in parliament than there are MPs. The Labour party's reform of the Lords in the 1990s was meant to reduce the size of the HoL. The rapid turnover of tory PMs in the last 6 years has also meant that they've been able to pack the Lords with tory supporters and increase its size.

I would like to see Starmer as PM
The Labour left wing elected Milliband and Corbyn they are just as vulnerable to extremists.

Fleurpepper

The ERG is the massive elephant in the room- and it is time we all knew who they are, who pulls their strings, and why- and what their real aims are.

Agreed, especially as we all pay their membership fees which they claim on expenses. Around £2000 per annum I believe. Some are very obvious members, people like Francois, Baker, Rees-Mogg, Braverman, Patel, Jenkins but others are more low key.

Talking of Isabel Oakeshott, as a pp was; this was on her Twitter feed this morning;

What is the point of the Tories? They've lost control of our borders, lost control of law and order, can't run the NHS and are taxing us to high heaven. We routinely have no trains, tubes or ambulances. They deserve political oblivion

I don't think you were wrong to query to OP description of Conservatives Caleo. They seemed right to me (and those who wrote them) but I doubt they are definitive.

In the end I come back to PR so the country can choose their own coalition, instead of having it imposed upon them. Does this mean the Conservative Party will cling together against such an outcome or shatter and form smaller parties. If it does the second, does the coalition of the left - the Labour Party - become a similar problem?

The two main political parties changed considerably during the centuries before universal franchise and the emergence of the Labour Party.

In the nineteenth century, the Whigs supported the abolition of slavery, widening the franchise to the middle classes and free trade. They campaigned for the abolition of "rotten boroughs" and more MPs for the new cities such as Manchester.

Free trade benefited poorer people because it brought down prices and helped exports from the new industries, but was bitterly opposed by traditional farmers because they couldn't compete on price. Rural workers lost their jobs, while urban workers benefited from lower prices. Nineteenth century Liberals were associated with non-conformism and, by the beginning of the 20th century, with social reform.

Both Whigs and Tories supported capitalism (a word not generally used in the modern sense until the mid-nineteenth century). It wasn't until 1918 when universal male suffrage was introduced that working class people had any representation. The UK has never had a strong tradition of ideological socialism in the same way many European countries have.