Nurses Strike -Do you support? What will it look like?

The Nightingale Pledge has been discussed before on GN. I've also asked my sisters (both retired nurses) about it. It's not routinely used in the UK. Are you American?

Long before I qualified as an RGN nurses have been crying out for a pay rise. Striking wasn’t an option in our profession, something we would never have agreed to as we were backed into a corner by governments who knew we upheld the Nightingale Pledge, similar to the Hippocratic Oath upheld by medics but I wholeheartedly feel enough is indeed enough and I back today’s nurses 100%.

(I have recently till a month ago been a Governor on the local MH trust so have been to these amalgamation meetings, but my personal opinion TBH is that at the moment its adding just yet more tasks for stretched managers to undertake instead of immediate patient care concerns)

Oldbat1

Totally support the nurses. I know I couldn’t do their job. Undervalued and overworked.

Me too, Oldbat1.

I can't help remembering the recent posts we had on here in defence of abolishing the bankers' bonus cap and cutting taxes for the wealthy. Wanting 'more' seems to be perfectly acceptable when it's the wealthy who want more...

PS -on the size and number of Trusts - well, its possible that there could be room for some amalgamations in very small Trusts since I don't know them,

but for example ours (and both medical and mental health trusts are striking on my area, don't forget to think of both1) covers the whole of a large city AND surrounding small towns and that is a huge amount to manage and could not get bigger without losing sigh of practicalities.

BTW, are people aware that there are amalgamations at a higher level on the way already for certain services?

Ie, we have been matched up with 3 more surrounding trusts and intentions are to facilitate among other matters the move to care homes/freeing up beds/stopping the practice as far as possible in Mental Health of sending patients all round the country due to lack of beds in acute cases at huge expense)

I work in a job that has traditionally been regarded as "vocational". For me & others of my colleagues it was never regarded as a "vocation" but was/is a job that we chose for various different work/lifestyle factors & does not mean that we aren't good at it.
Can we please stop using the excuse that a job is "vocational" as an excuse for underpaying people.

Totally support the nurses. I know I couldn’t do their job. Undervalued and overworked.

"The current Labour hierarchy doesn't think anyone should strike."

Rubbish.

They do have the view that sitting MP's shouldn't join picket lines, thats another matter altogether, and the reason why is that you cannot support ANY strike across the board in their position. support depends on a whole complex set of decisions according to any particular strike.

There are few people who go on strike for the hell of it. Usually they have come to the end of their patience and, of course, going on strike means you are worse off in the short term. Nurses were there throughout a pandemic and many died or were left with long term covid effects. People stood on their doorsteps and clapped to show their appreciation. Well the reality is their wages haven't kept pace with inflation and they struggle to live. Would you want to be nursed by someone who was starving or worried about paying bills? They are professionals who have studied and deserve a decent salary. If more is expected of them, then they should be paid more. I support them 100%

Nurses used to get a small salary when they were training on the wards
Training included a long shift , study, and lectures
Now they do a University degree , practical experience on the wards in a block , no salary , and end up with huge debt like other students and their salary has to take this debt into consideration
Nurses homes are History , accommodation is very expensive and the work is hard , paperwork is mind boggling , everything has to be noted , double checked and this while patients need answered , it’s not a vocation it’s slave labour , it needs to change

Casdon

Before we get diverted down a manager bashing route, here is the accurate information about relative costs, numbers etc.
www.kingsfund.org.uk/audio-video/key-facts-figures-nhs
To be clear, long term underfunding of the NHS is the issue not over management, that’s just a lazy political excuse for the long term neglect of the NHS by the government - it’s a deliberate political strategy.

I think that article should be pinned to the top of the thread!

Nurses are appearing at food banks..

25Avalon

17.6% pay rise?! Sorry we just can’t afford that much at the moment. Even Labour don’t seem to be supporting it yet. That’s not to say they don’t deserve a pay rise. Perhaps it could be done in increments. Interesting long letter in my local paper from a retired hospital administrator who more or less advocates going back to the old HMC system and cutting the number of administrators and their salaries. He says there shouldn’t be CEO’s but secretaries who are part of the team. I’ll try and copy it if I can.

The current Labour hierarchy doesn't think anyone should strike. Wasn't a sitting MP deflected after joining a picket line. They are no longer the party of the worker, the unemployed or the vulnerable, and I say this as a former party member.
Tory lite.

Frankly, anyone who doesn't support them should try doing their jobs for a day! Nursing has changed out of all recognition since the days when it was seen as a vocation. Yes, there is a lot of wastage in the NHS - maybe if they sorted that out, they could afford to pay nurses what they deserve (and don't even get me started on the millions wasted on the PPE debacle during lockdown). My daughter and her fiance are both nurses - she was telling me just yesterday how short staffed their wards are, so they have to bring in agency nurses - who are paid more than three times what the normal staff get, yet aren't qualified to do the job. My daughter is assaulted on an almost daily basis by her patients - I'd like to see politicians putting up with that kind of thing.

Before we get diverted down a manager bashing route, here is the accurate information about relative costs, numbers etc.
www.kingsfund.org.uk/audio-video/key-facts-figures-nhs
To be clear, long term underfunding of the NHS is the issue not over management, that’s just a lazy political excuse for the long term neglect of the NHS by the government - it’s a deliberate political strategy.

Clapping for them on our doorsteps won't pay their bills. A close relative of mine works in admin in the NHS. She said the money wasted by managers makes her blood boil.

17.6% pay rise?! Sorry we just can’t afford that much at the moment. Even Labour don’t seem to be supporting it yet. That’s not to say they don’t deserve a pay rise. Perhaps it could be done in increments. Interesting long letter in my local paper from a retired hospital administrator who more or less advocates going back to the old HMC system and cutting the number of administrators and their salaries. He says there shouldn’t be CEO’s but secretaries who are part of the team. I’ll try and copy it if I can.

LOUISA1523

rosie1959

Considering nurses now I believe have to have a degree they are dropping below the private sector salary expectations

An honours degree is the basics... to move on and specialise you need a level 7 qualification .....my band 6 post required a PG Dip and my band 7 post required a full MSc

Over the last few months, I've noticed that specialist nurses are basically doing the work doctors used to do. I've been reading quite a few research papers and quite often the nurses have been included as part of the research teams. My breast cancer nurse is a specialist nurse and is amazingly knowledgeable - I've noticed she has an MSc. - and I bet she costs the NHS a fraction of a doctor's salary.

Cabbie21

It struck me when I looked at the list of Trusts in the link, just what a level of bureaucracy there is in the NHS. Is it good use of money?
I am all for seeing nurses being properly paid however.

Are you suggesting there should be fewer trusts?

Nursing is a profession and should be salaried appropriately, as a retired nurse I'm 100% supporting their strike.

One issue is that for years salaries have basically stagnated. Now inflation has taken off many more people are feeling the pinch. While I don't think that nurses should strike I can clearly understand that they have been driven to this by fundamentally having a pay cut. The health services are being driven into the ground. The Mail has a map detailing what hospitals are affected.

rosie1959

Considering nurses now I believe have to have a degree they are dropping below the private sector salary expectations

An honours degree is the basics... to move on and specialise you need a level 7 qualification .....my band 6 post required a PG Dip and my band 7 post required a full MSc

It struck me when I looked at the list of Trusts in the link, just what a level of bureaucracy there is in the NHS. Is it good use of money?
I am all for seeing nurses being properly paid however.

I was a nurse for 35 years and I think it's a sad day that we have come to this. Unfortunately, the idea that nursing is a vocation and doesn't expect a reward for the work that;s done is very outdated. A vocation doesn't pay the bills. Some nurses feel they have a vocation many don't. For my generation and the one before it nursing was one of the very limited options and we found we had an aptitude for the task once we got into it and past the rigorous training.
The pandemic has pushed nursing and nurses to the brink and their clearly needs to be a proper and urgent conversation with the government regarding salaries and training budgets. I would never have taken strike action but each must act according to their conscience. I hope they get a decent settlement but the current demand is unrealistic.

Of course they should strike. The Tories will never pay them a decent wage unless they use industrial muscle. If it takes another £47billion to put the NHS back to where it should be then Sunak and Hunt should find it. Infrastructure investment is about more than roads and other physical facilities - it's also about a staff infrastructure that underpins the NHS. If you are an affected patient tell your MP to tell the government to get on with it.