“Scottish government loses indyref2 court case”

I do think though if there is another referendum (unlikely) then the whole of the U.K. should vote on the decision, as it will affect us all.

Democracy is important.

Aye, Manchester has come up a lot today, hasn't it? Probably because I was told yesterday that we were fairly represented in the UK Parliament because we have the same population as Manchester, by a person who lives in Manchester. (I think). It's an opinion. Not one I subscribe to, but it's an opinion.

If everyone in England isn't obsessed by this topic, that's just fine. Maybe there will be fewer comments with no experience of Scottish politics and no basis in fact, telling us how to run our own country?

volver

^Scotland is a nation which has produced great inventors, engineers, statesmen, explorers, etc and has, for generations, made its mark on the world.^

And still we get told we're just the same as Manchester really and we have nothing to moan about....

Oh give over!
What’s all this thin skinned stuff about Manchester? I bet that most people of Manchester don’t give a stuff about what Scotland does.
Everyone in England isn’t obsessed with this topic and that’s an understatement.

Boz

I am getting really bored with NS. Has she got nothing else to do but pursue this Nationalistic Agenda?

I believe that is the fundamental basis of the Scottish National Party. Probably the reason so many Scottish people voted SNP.

Is that their ONLY function then - to get independence?

No, obviously. But asking them to stop trying for it is like asking a Tory to support a high-tax economy. Especially as they keep getting voted into power with this as a major policy in their manifesto.

As the majority party at Holyrood aren't they supposed to be just a little bit responsible for governing Scotland and sorting out some of her problems?

They are; you might not think they are very good at it but its incorrect to say that all their energy goes on independence. Although its what they Daily Express &co would like you to believe. Read a post by someone who knows what they are talking about, for example LadyHonoriaDedlock Wed 23-Nov-22 15:01:12

That's not what the Act of Union says.

Try again.

Jaberwok

The Act of Union 1707 states quite clearly that for Scotland to regain independence both Westminster and Holyrood have to agree a referendum to decide the matter. Its like The Treaty of Utrecht regarding Gibraltar ,both sides have to agree in order to break the treaty. As it stands no way is Westminster budging on either of these issues

At last! Someone who has actually read the Act of Union of 1707!

Until a law is passed by the British government that makes the Act of Union invalid a Scottish referendum can only take place with the consent of a majority in Parliament in Westminster.

Fair or not: that is the law as it stands.

The only way Scotland can become independent is by packing as many Scottish MPs into Westminster who will vote for a new referendum. And even doing so might not be enough as there are still more elected Members of Parliament from English constituencies than Scottish.

volver

Good Lord folks. Just RTFT.

The SNP's obsession with independence? That's why they exist. To get Independence. And they get voted into power, have done for 15 years.

You may not like it, but that's the story. 🤷🏼‍♀️

Is that their ONLY function then - to get independence?

As the majority party at Holyrood aren't they supposed to be just a little bit responsible for governing Scotland and sorting out some of her problems?

I certainly Bemoan a great deal of what is going on in the UK right now... .

Doodledog

Can this work? Surely if people want to have a referendum it's up to them? I could organise one for my street to say we want a Christmas tree at the end.

Nobody has to abide by the results (I doubt th council would cough up for a tree), but it would be a lot more difficult for Westminster to refuse to acknowledge an overwhelming Yes or Sturgeon to refuse to listen to a No.

I have a lot of connections to Scotland, and don't want to see a split on a personal level. I also think that the UK is better sticking together, particularly as we have isolated ourselves so much with the dreaded Brexit; but if our Scottish friends want to leave I don't see how the government can stop them, short of going back to border wars or something.

"Nobody has to abide by the results"

The whole point of voting in a referendum is that you DO have to abide by the result! Hence why Brexit vote losers became known as Remoaners. Sturgeon is leading a group of Bemoaners

Good Lord folks. Just RTFT.

The SNP's obsession with independence? That's why they exist. To get Independence. And they get voted into power, have done for 15 years.

You may not like it, but that's the story. 🤷🏼‍♀️

volver

I think the fact that people make jokes like that helps to explain a bit of the hatred, Maybee70.

I don't think the English hate Scots people most of us have Scots relations or Scots DNA I know mine is over 60%. I think we just want you to be independent sort your own problems out and stop hating and bleating about the English and your lack of funding from us.
There is a big North /South divide in England, do you see constant posts about levelling up do we protest in the streets not very often, we know we have to be at work if we are lucky enough to have it and put this United Kingdom as it is back on its feet.

There is no way another referendum can be given by any government, to Scotland. I am involved with what was the remain alliances, now rejoin alliances across the U.K and E.U.

Yes I live in England. We came within a whisker of the 2nd referendum which thanks to Jo Swinton didn't happen (that's another story as to why)

The anger would be beyond comprehension if Scotland was allowed a second referendum when the whole of the U.K was not.

The government knows this. Before others start on about it's the English fault, let's look at a few facts.

The vote was the whole of The U.K. One person, one vote. It was not given on each country. Look at these figures carefully

England: 48% remain 52% leave.
Scotland 62% remain. 38% leave
N Ireland 55% remain. 45,% leave
Wales 48% remain. 52% leave.

You cannot put this all one country: look again at the above: Scotland and N I who overall voted remain also had 38% and 45% leave.

Every vote counted from all 4 countries so ALL leave votes come into the making of the vote..

All 4 countries leaders including Nicola Sturgeon agreed to this. It was not voted on by country. If was voted on as a whole.

N.S would be better spending her time on the problems within Scotland day to day life than on this.

There are thousands of us behind the scenes working quietly on the fight to rejoin which won't happen overnight.

Properly organised right through the U.K there is much going on and that should be the focus.

It isn't only Scotland who is angry about this. 78 areas of England did NOT vote to leave. 27 in London and the rest spread around England, including the North.

The remain/leave vote in England in all but 2 areas was marginal. Talking 100s. Only East Mids and Lincs it wasn't marginal.

Those I know who voted leave regret it. The vote would be the other way round today.

Give it approx 10 years (A generation as the vote was 6 years ago) then we should be on course for a new referendum which will this time be led and campaigned on by the rejoin alliances.

For those of you unaware here is links to two of the main pro groups quietly beavering in the background on this

www.volteuropa.org/ (A pan E.U political party in this country to help with this)

www.europeanmovement.co.uk/
The rejoin alliances run across the E.U and U.K and run by the heavyweights of politics like Andrew Adonis, Ken Clarke, Michael Hesletine

Get involved with these. N. S is not as interested in this as you think. She bangs on about this as she a one trick pony. She should be encouraging you all to get involved with the pro rejoin movements.

They are well known about. So if you want to make a difference join the national/e.u groups fighting for the rejoin. Websites above and see what is happening. Yes this takes in Scotland too. It's a 4 countries

Scotland should be independent if the majority wish it but can they afford to be truly so? The Barnett formula pays £126 per capita to Scotland (£100 per capita in England). Could the (estimated) 2.7 million Scottish taxpayers manage to finance their country without that grant? (Figures from a Google search for 'Barnett' and 'how many tax payers in Scotland')

The SNP obsession with independence has prevented them from effectively carrying out their day job! NHS, education and cost of living crisis have taken a back seat for far too long!
When the vote re. Independence was taken we were told it was “a once in a lifetime’ - what they failed to tell us that if the SNP didn’t get the result they wanted we would be subjected to years of anti Westminster rhetoric and a sliding economy - who would want to invest in such a divided area of the UK?
I hope the SNP will now get back to running an efficient and prosperous country but I fear the anger and repercussions will continue.

The referendum result did not suit the minority in Scotland. Pity - but that is democracy, and you cannot perisist in asking the question until you get the answer you want. Get over it, NS, and put energy into the pressing matters that all governments are facing right now.

Scotland is a nation which has produced great inventors, engineers, statesmen, explorers, etc and has, for generations, made its mark on the world.

And still we get told we're just the same as Manchester really and we have nothing to moan about....

Urmstongran

Thank you Calli 😊

Honestly volver my joke did reflect the fact that it’s being reported in the press that Indyref2 is losing ground. Many are saying the whole idea is a busted flush as less voters are keen than anticipated to vote for it.

I’m sorry but I do have to wonder if that’s the real reason why you are so cross?

I’ve been perfectly respectful all along on this topic as you well know. My tongue in cheek joke was merely a reflection of findings in recent polls.

Anyway I’m very sorry if I hurt your feelings. Truly.
No disrespect was intended.

Thank you for your post Urmstongran

I'm glad that we're not having a referendum in October next year. It would have gone the way of "no". Not enough people have come over to the "yes" side to allow us to win. So I'm sorry, your amateur psychology in the analysis of my motives doesn't work here .

We need to work at having a country that is so successful, so strong, that independence is just the obvious step. I like to think of it as a wee step over a burn!

You may not think you are being disrespectful, maybe you don't mean to be, but you are. Think of your post that said something like "they can have their referendum but they have to give up after that". Sorry to be blunt, but you don't get a say. We'll decide. And people who live in Manchester are just going to have to live with it.

Urmstongran

Sturgeon, like Starmer, would have had us all locked away and claiming furlough for longer - making a bad situation worse. Thank god the ERGs got Boris to fold in the summer of last year and give us all Freedom Day when he did!

Totally agree on this.

The economy suffered enough with the lock downs.

Thank you Calli 😊

Fair do's, you do take a lot of flack on these threads, Urmstongran!
I might not agree with you always, but I'll defend your right to say it.

Never would consider Scotland as a minnow (your words)

Me neither
Scotland is a nation which has produced great inventors, engineers, statesmen, explorers, etc and has, for generations, made its mark on the world.

I live in Wales but have many Scottish connections
There are lots of Scottish people living here too.

Sturgeon, like Starmer, would have had us all locked away and claiming furlough for longer - making a bad situation worse. Thank god the ERGs got Boris to fold in the summer of last year and give us all Freedom Day when he did!

volver I am not against Scotland or it’s population. Never would consider Scotland as a minnow (your words)

Thank you GG13. I believe you.

But some of us in Scotland know that we are a separate country. When we are told that we don't deserve to have the same say as England, that we're comparable to Manchester, and when were told that we can't even ask ourselves and our population about independence unless the totally unbalanced "UK" Parliament allows us to, we feel our noses out of joint. It's been going on 300 years, and I, for one, have had enough. Actually, I'd had enough a wee while ago...

paddy anne how can you possibly say your Government should be left-wing? You got rid of nearly all your Labour MP,s how many have you got is it one?

I live in Wales but have many Scottish connections and if they got independence would move there, England politicians (and some of the public) often moan about how much money Scotland costs them, if this was the case why not let them go? Because they have too much to lose if Scotland goes. Personally I'd like the Celtic nations to stick together including Cornwall in this. We're all just subject to the whims and corruption of government. There is a lot of criticism of Sturgeon but I'd be much happier if she'd been PM over the past few years (yes I know that wouldn't have been possible)

They do look like a jolly bunch, though!

🥃 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿