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Buckingham Palace Aide resigns

(1001 Posts)
Parsley3 Wed 30-Nov-22 14:12:28

BBC News - Buckingham Palace aide resigns over remarks to black charity boss
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-63810468

Well at least the Palace took this incident seriously and didn't fob off Ms Fulani's complaint.

Callistemon21 Fri 02-Dec-22 22:37:19

Not aimed specifically at you Callistemon.
Ok, but I thought it was aimed at specifically Aveline and me.

I am, yes, and am older than you although not all my family are white British and obviously not all old either.

So. Old white women saying that the victim wasn't discriminated against, and even if she was, she should shut up, because worse things happen.

I did say what happened was wrong and the persistence was totally unnecessary. It was awful.
However, I do feel there were ways of dealing with this distressing incident with grace and dignity so that it didn't overwhelm the important purpose of the event so that Ngozi Fulani and other representatives there could publicise the plight of women worldwide.
That's not a red herring nor whataboutery.

Yes, I feel very sad and upset that the whole focus of this event has shifted as a result of this incident.
White, old, whatever, I shan't be changing my mind in that I find that part of it upsetting too.

DaisyAnne Fri 02-Dec-22 22:26:42

imaround

Chestnut

nexus63

why do people call her an aide? she was one of the queens ladies in waiting and a very close friend, she is an 83 year old woman who has been around the royal family long enough to know better, the transcript of the conversation was dreadful, even if you think that in your own head, you do not say it or treat someone that way.

Transcript of the conversation? As the Queen said, recollections may vary.

There were witnesses for cripes sake. Witnesses who did in fact say the comments were "offensive, racist and unwelcoming".

The palace and the POW both acknowledged with for what it is.

The only recollections that vary are the apologists after the fact.

So, who were these "witnesses"? Do they have a bias towards or against either of the people involved? They are certainly not a cross-section of viable witnesses. I think only one person commented about that conversation.

The whole point is we do not know. The papers just lapped up what they were fed.

The palace wanted to stop the negative PR. They put out an anouncement that would calm it. SH wanted out - why wouldn't she both for her own sake and those she worked for.

No one is apologising for anything on here. As far as I can see, everyone has said Lady S was out of her depth politically. She is better out of this sort of situation. The question is why it was made so political. There are two views on that, but nobody 'actually' knows.

GagaJo Fri 02-Dec-22 22:15:43

Not aimed specifically at you Callistemon.

But we are mostly old and mostly white. And there are a lot of us on here defining what is and isn't abusive, discriminatory or racist.

So. Old white women saying that the victim wasn't discriminated against, and even if she was, she should shut up, because worse things happen.

Perhaps it isn't the Black woman who needs to shut up.

Callistemon21 Fri 02-Dec-22 21:44:49

GagaJo

Callistemon21

Aveline

Apart from anything else, it can be a matter of 'it ain't what you say it's the way that you say it'. It could have been said kindly and with an enquiring smile rather than rattled out as series of demands as reported.

Susan Hussey was wrong, Aveline
I don't think anyone is disputing that.

But, in comparison to the plight of some women and girls around the world, these hurt feelings of Ngozi Fulani, although valid, pale into comparison.

Ahhh, gransnet members. The arbiters of what does and does not constitute as abuse or discrimination.

How refreshing, that a group of older white women are those calling the shots. I suppose at the very minimum it makes a change from it being white men.

Please could you stop the personal abusive comments, Gagajo. It is becoming wearisome.

You know nothing about any of us or our families.

Thank you.

imaround Fri 02-Dec-22 21:40:34

I don't think the problem is that she didn't apologize and retire.

The problem is that this entire incident is more deeply rooted in the form of institutionalized racism and there are countless English people on GN, MN and the internet at large who do not refuse see the racism that happened and are blaming the victim here.

At the root of it, if a bunch of white people in the UK excuse this behavior and blame the victim, that means that there is a bigger overall problem of, at the very least, racist apologists in the UK. And no amount of saying "we are not a racist country" is going to counter act what the rest of the world is witnessing.

How much evidence does one need in order to think, maybe there is a problem and we all need to work to change that?

That was a rhetorical question.

Mollygo Fri 02-Dec-22 21:28:27

The fallacy will probably go on as long as the accusations of abuse and claims of violation.
I read that Lady Hussey apologised and has withdrawn, either under pressure or because she felt it was the right thing to do. (I don’t know which because I wasn’t there.)
Certainly if she read the ranting she could claim to feel violated or abused-or do we no longer accept apologies if they are made to British Citizens?

volver Fri 02-Dec-22 21:17:18

There is no recording. How long will this fallacy be pushed as truth?

Aveline Fri 02-Dec-22 21:07:52

Lady Susan Hussey did not 'admit the conversation was dodgy'. We don't know anything about how she heard or was told that a guest had complained about her. What we do know is that she apologised at once and has retired and withdrawn from the royal duties.
All we have is either hearsay or an illegally acquired recording.

lemsip Fri 02-Dec-22 20:31:57

“I had on a red, gold and green headband, a cowrie shell necklace and the ankh (an ancient Egyptian symbol meaning “life” that some Black people, and Rastafarians, wear in recognition of its sanctity). I think that’s what drew Lady Hussey because there were so many people in the place.

GagaJo Fri 02-Dec-22 20:25:02

The woman, Lady wotsit, admitted the conversation was dodgy.

imaround Fri 02-Dec-22 20:19:29

Chestnut

nexus63

why do people call her an aide? she was one of the queens ladies in waiting and a very close friend, she is an 83 year old woman who has been around the royal family long enough to know better, the transcript of the conversation was dreadful, even if you think that in your own head, you do not say it or treat someone that way.

Transcript of the conversation? As the Queen said, recollections may vary.

There were witnesses for cripes sake. Witnesses who did in fact say the comments were "offensive, racist and unwelcoming".

The palace and the POW both acknowledged with for what it is.

The only recollections that vary are the apologists after the fact.

GagaJo Fri 02-Dec-22 20:15:09

LadyHonoriaDedlock, ironic that Farage accused Fulani, British woman of being anti British when he applied for a German passport for himself.

He's a rat that would do well to jump ship.

mokryna Fri 02-Dec-22 20:14:48

Callistemon21

volver

How did she get in? Scale the walls?

Bribed the King's Guards?

He said ’Piggybacked’ .. I don’t know what that meant. Was it an invitation with another one’s name on it, taking their place because they couldn’t come or arrived as assistant on another group’s name. She did have a name badge so I don’t know what is true.

GagaJo Fri 02-Dec-22 20:12:42

Callistemon21

Aveline

Apart from anything else, it can be a matter of 'it ain't what you say it's the way that you say it'. It could have been said kindly and with an enquiring smile rather than rattled out as series of demands as reported.

Susan Hussey was wrong, Aveline
I don't think anyone is disputing that.

But, in comparison to the plight of some women and girls around the world, these hurt feelings of Ngozi Fulani, although valid, pale into comparison.

Ahhh, gransnet members. The arbiters of what does and does not constitute as abuse or discrimination.

How refreshing, that a group of older white women are those calling the shots. I suppose at the very minimum it makes a change from it being white men.

imaround Fri 02-Dec-22 20:11:50

"It's quite astonishing that the focus is now on one woman and how inappropriate comments by another woman made her feel."

Victim blaming.

This woman went to the palace in order to raise awareness of domestic violence victims. Instead, she was met with a racist person. That is not her fault. She did not seek it out. But she met it with courage and confidence.

She absolutely should call out racism where it exists. That is how change is made.

No one, who if the victim of racism, should be made to feel guilty for standing up for themselves and others in similar situations.

LadyHonoriaDedlock Fri 02-Dec-22 20:11:07

Forsythia

Dream on. Everything that has been said is true about this individual. She is a BLM activist. She accused Charles and Camilla in a tweet of abuse against Markle. She said Markle should be on the balcony at the jubilee. Now she claims she never said it…. Her mate is Markles pet photographer. He also chimed in yesterday. Lady Susan was recently quoted in the Telegraph as saying Markles marriage wouldn’t last. Join the dots and open your eyes. Just nice and convenient to derail William and Kate’s tour as they did when they visited the Caribbean previously.
Go for it Nigel Farage and others. Expose her and her agenda and links to Markle. A despicable set up job on an elderly lady.

A couple of points here, Forsythia.

1. There's nothing wrong with being a Black Lives Matter (BLM) activist. BLM isn't an organisation with a membership and official leadership, it's a decentralised movement established to protest against the disproportionate number of deaths of Black Americans for trivial reasons, in particular a 17-year-old boy carrying a bag of sweeties back to the relatives he was visiting in a Florida gated community, shot by a vigilante who pursued and harassed him for no good reason other than being Black in the wrong place. And, of course, the man in Minneapolis who was suffocated by a police officer after being arrested on suspicion of passing a fake 20-dollar bill, while handcuffed and lying prone on the ground. In Britain the movement has been focusing on the shameful records of dispropotionate Black deaths in police custody. It is a matter that warrants close attention so that it is not swept under the carpet.

2. There is no such person as "Markle". There is is Meghan, Duchess of Sussex to you. (Countess of Dumbarton when in Scotland). Whether or not you think she and her husband should have been on the balcony, it's a valid point for debate. She has said that she was subjected to racism within the royal household. As somebody said (with customary diplomacy), "recollections may vary". Perceptions of what constitutes racism, and what experience they have had of it, may also vary between a Californian of mixed heritage and pure-bred English aristocracy. Her persistent questioning at the reception would suggest that racism is indeed alive and well in the royal household. Given the late Queen's dedication to the Commonwealth, by the way, I doubt very much whether she would have approved.

3. Susan Hussey isn't quite the sheltered person she's portrayed as. Ten years ago it was possible to say that a woman of 83 was raised in the traditions of Empire but that time is now gone. She was seven when WW2 ended, nine when India and Pakistan became independent and the dismantling of Empire began. She was born in the same year as Diana Rigg, that quintessential icon of sixties Britain. Her older brother William Waldegrave was a minister in Margaret Thatcher's cabinet (he was my MP for a while later on, and to give him his due he was a good conscientious constituency MP although I still cheered when he went down, about ten minutes after Portillo). Her husband was Marmaduke Hussey, a Conservative Party donor installed by Thatcher as Chair of BBC governors with the express mission of removing Alasdair Milne, deemed to insufficiently deferential to the government, as Director-General and replacing him with somebody more compliant. It's not hard, at least to me, to see where her prejudices lie.

4. William and Kate's Caribbean tour was a PR disaster without any intervention from the Sussexes. Getting themselves filmed shaking fingers with Black children apparently penned in behind a wire fence, and riding through Kingston standing upright in an open-topped car in tropical military uniform, as if showing the colonials who was boss.

5. As for Nigel Farage, well I'd say he was a motor-mouthed spiv of the sort the Lady Susans of this world would find insufferably vulgar, but that's just me. He was speaking on GB News, which makes no pretence at even-handedness, it lists heavily to starboard (bilge keel showing). To misquote Dr Tolkien, if you rely on either of them for news you'll never want for moonshine. Nigel says Ngozi Fulani (born in Kilburnis "anti-British", which is odd considering how vehemently she insisted on her British nationality. He also says she's a Marxist which reflects an all-too-common misunderstanding of Marx (who thought Capitalism – he wrote a hefty book about it – was pretty good, the best system that had been devised at the time he was writing and certainly a huge improvement on Feudalism). As far as I know Ms Fulani hasn't analysed anything in terms of class conflict, although on the performance of the other night she might well be tempted after the run-in between the daughter of an Earl and the daughter of a British Railways worker (though not a driver: the union didn''t allow Black drivers in 1961), and some of the resulting commentary.

6. You do know, don't you, that Ngosi Fulani is no spring chicken herself, at 61?

Nightsky2 Fri 02-Dec-22 20:05:23

growstuff

Iam64

Nightsky2

growstuff

Elegran But she wasn't wearing "national dress".

It certainly wasn’t western style dress was it. She wanted to be noticed, why else would one go to BP dressed like that.

I expect Ms Fulani gave a lot of thought to her outfit. Just like every other woman in that room. Are you seriously suggesting ‘western style’ is the order of the day? It isn’t 1950, though some comments on this thread make it feel like that

Maybe Ms Fulani doesn't own a tweed skirt, a cardi and pearls. grin

Growstuff…..My mil used to wear tweed skirts. Jeans and a jumper being my style for everyday wear.

Callistemon21 Fri 02-Dec-22 19:55:48

We would need a recording to know

It's all hearsay
Therefore inadmissible in the Court of Gransnet.

Callistemon21 Fri 02-Dec-22 19:54:10

volver

How did she get in? Scale the walls?

Bribed the King's Guards?

DaisyAnne Fri 02-Dec-22 19:53:23

Aveline

Apart from anything else, it can be a matter of 'it ain't what you say it's the way that you say it'. It could have been said kindly and with an enquiring smile rather than rattled out as series of demands as reported.

Indeed, it could Aveline and the complainant could have been leading the conversation and making it difficult or, to be balanced, it could have felt like an attack by SH. We would need a recording to know.

Which means we don't know at the moment and may have to rely on possible motive for having a conversation such as the one reported.

Aveline Fri 02-Dec-22 19:51:13

Callistemon21 I don't think Lady Susan Hussey was necessarily wrong. Obviously there were communication issues but none of us were there and we're not likely to hear from Lady S who has apologised and retired with dignity.

DaisyAnne Fri 02-Dec-22 19:46:43

growstuff

lemsip

Nexus you say, 'the 'transcript' of the conversation was dreadful,

yes * the transcript* of a very long conversation, remembered word for word... Or Not remembered but recorded.

I would be able to remember a conversation that long. If it was indeed recorded, it can't be disputed. Nobody made Lady Hussey say what she did.

I presume MI5 is already after your amazing and one could say inhuman memory. I really do wonder what you are going to come out with next just to hang on to the bias you have adopted.

Research on the forgetting curve (Figure 1) shows that within one hour, people will have forgotten an average of 50 percent of the information you presented. Within 24 hours, they have forgotten an average of 70 percent of new information, and within a week, forgetting claims an average of 90 percent of it. (Miller, deWinstanley, & Carey, 1996; Pezdek & Prull, 1993; Ross & Sicoly, 1979; Samp & Humphreys, 2007; Stafford, Burggraf, & Sharkey, 1987; Stafford & Daly, 1984). For example, Samp and Humphreys (2007)

If it was recorded I would a) like to know why the complainant was wired - even you would have to admit that would be weird and b) like to hear it.

volver Fri 02-Dec-22 19:44:14

How did she get in? Scale the walls?

mokryna Fri 02-Dec-22 19:43:10

Although I am not a bit of a fan of F I did listen to the clip on YouTube. I wonder if it is true, like his says, that that Ms Fulani was not on the Buckingham Palace’s invited list.

Callistemon21 Fri 02-Dec-22 19:38:57

Aveline

Apart from anything else, it can be a matter of 'it ain't what you say it's the way that you say it'. It could have been said kindly and with an enquiring smile rather than rattled out as series of demands as reported.

Susan Hussey was wrong, Aveline
I don't think anyone is disputing that.

But, in comparison to the plight of some women and girls around the world, these hurt feelings of Ngozi Fulani, although valid, pale into comparison.

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