Wyllow3
Language matters profoundly. It shapes our thought processes. It shapes the way we conceive the world, it shapes the way we see each other. It shapes the way we grow up, our attitudes to others. It is ever changing.
Lisa Nandy has described herself as "mixed heritage" in order to describe how her Indian Father and a White UK mother has shaped her view and her experience of the world.
I think it is respectful to listen to how different people describe themselves and follow that lead. We are a society which for centuries has been dominated by a white male view of the world, perhaps re-inforced by the past of being an empire. for centuries, women, people of different races have been "other" to this norm.
We are in a process of change, and it is good that we are, because it promotes true understanding between people who have very different origins. so our language evolves with it.
It is an uncomfortable process. It is contested, and there will be disagreements.
If you take the trouble to read books like Layla Saad's "Me and White Supremacy: Combat Racism, Change the World, and Become a Good Ancestor" you have an opportunity to
"challenges you to do the essential work of unpacking your biases, and helps white people take action and dismantle the privilege within themselves so that you can stop (often unconsciously) inflicting damage on people of color, and in turn, help other white people do better, too."
we read this as part of a Quaker study group when the black Lives Matter movement arose, believing that we have to start with out own part-conscious though processes and language. None of us are totally free of this, we are a work in process, on a journey.
I realised for example at my gym, which is very multi-cultural, I was not being able to recall which man of Afro-Caribbean origin I had had a laugh and joke with because my memory is mainly trained to recall the details of white faces. Voice, a different matter; the lilts of West African English being different from a black man who was brought up in Brum or locally, or someone of Somalian origin whose first language was of course a French dialect.
So rather than be defensive, "I'm not racist", believe, you might be, the people you meet might be, and take on the broadening of horizons and challenge - with kindness and understanding - but don't let it pass.
What you say contains some truths Wyllow3. However, like most threads, this one is multifaceted.
I do not agree that the "process of change" is as one-sided as some suggest. Your view of how we treat everyone well and as an equal may not be mine. Both may be different to the man next door.
There is a difference in the amount people will want to know about what you, or I think is "right". Lecturing people to the point of calling them racist if they don't agree is not only rude and arrogant but also futile. It may well lead and has led, to a backlash against some of our citizens.
This thread was about a news "story". There were always going to be a least two perspectives on that story. People were going to express opinions. Why do we need to be drilled on the minutiae of a few people's opinions? Their way is not, and never will be, the only way.
People started with a simple view of the story, as you do. They exchanged information and expanded on their perspective. I do not hold with one bias that seems to be held by some. It is the one that says that the woman who declared herself injured by the conversation cannot be wrong because a) she is not white and b) the other person was.
I am now of the opinion that this was a set-up. Lady Susan may be good or bad, nice or nasty. That is irrelevant. So is who she married. She has had a lifetime of service that she found and felt worthwhile, which was ended because, in my opinion, she was set up to be the bad guy in a media story. I am prepared to change that view should more information be found.
I am, Wyllow interested to learn about the modern view of "good manners". I am not going to accept being lectured, told this view is the only truth, and that should I not conform, I am a racist. If you think people are being defensive, you might try asking yourself why they feel so bullied that they need to be.
