Buckingham Palace Aide resigns

Nice try, but we're not going to stop talking about racism in the Palace.

Fine.

Do whatever.

I knew about the event. It was reported that it was due to take place in most of the press.

You carry on talking about racism in the Palace, volver. I prefer to listen to mixed race friends and relatives and how weary they are of this pathological altruism. You're not doing it in their name. Of course racism exists. But I do believe that you're acting this way due to your attitude toward the RF. Which you're perfectly entitled to have. But it sullies your comments somewhat.

Yes I missed it. I tend to miss out on the Royal stuff.

Maybe you could start a thread to discuss this important event, Callistemon?

Aveline

We would have been talking about the event because it would have been promoted heavily. However, the media prefer a controversial story.

Dreadful, isn't it, Aveline

As for nice try well, I suppose it's par for the course.

volver

Would you have known about the reception if we hadn't been talking about the unfortunate event Callistemon?

Nice try, but we're not going to stop talking about racism in the Palace.

Yes, I read about in the Guardian which published the Queen Consort's speech.
I saw it on the news.
I saw the wife of the Ukrainian President speaking about the rape and abuse of little girls, women, elderly women, by Russian soldiers.

I saw other women arrive for this event from around the world.
I saw Camilla engaging with these people.

Did you somehow miss it all volver?
What a pity. It's something of which we should all be aware.

If none of you knew about it before this incident, I am surprised.

Nicetry

Actually, I am incensed that this has all been sidelined on Gransnet so it's not worth posting any more.
🤬

We would have been talking about the event because it would have been promoted heavily. However, the media prefer a controversial story.

Would you have known about the reception if we hadn't been talking about the unfortunate event Callistemon?

Nice try, but we're not going to stop talking about racism in the Palace.

GagaJo

Iam64

Chestnut - have you listened to Nazir Afzal? It doesn’t matter the whataboutery. What matters is us our country improving it, nit denying there’s a problem

Irony that I pointed out the 'whataboutery' to another member on here earlier and was categorically told it wasn't (when of course it was!).

That would be me trying to point out that the very real problems women and girls encounter worldwide - abiuse, rape, death - which this event was supposed to highlight, has been lost in the furore over this conversation.

I will reiterate what I said because it is not whataboutery, whatever you may claim, Gagajo.

It is valid and very important.

The more you try to deflect attention from this, the more it seems that you think these issues are irrelevant to women and girls today.

She looks quite happy here

Chestnut

Well I am shocked that people on GN seem to think the UK is such a dreadfully racist country, when all we are talking about is a misunderstood conversation. I don't see segregation, imprisonment or torture here, things that happen every day in other countries. Maybe someone can suggest another country that is less racist than the UK, because I can't think of one. It's really not so bad here but tearing your own country to shreds all the time seems to be a hobby with some on GN.

The point is Chestnut that it's not about individuals per se being called racist or about a country being called racist per se.

In this particular case its about unconscious assumptions made that aren't recognised but that impact on behaviours, conversation, questions, actions. It's about those behaviours experienced numerous times in numerous contexts, impacting on people lives It's about recognising that and doing things to avoid that.

In the case of Lady H there is nothing to suggest (in fact the opposite from comments made about her service and from people who know her) that she wouldn't be open to hearing, learning, thinking about the whole thing that occurred within a wider context than "offending" and "apologising". And she deserves the chance to take advantage of such an opportunity, if she is, (as I would expect based on above as reported), willing to do so and with a desire to learn/understand.

There is also at the moment, little to suggest a recognition in the wider Palace "machinery" that this problem requires more than an apology and a chat (however kindly and genuinely meant, which I am sure it would be by Lady H!). The fact that this happened in this way highlights a potentially bigger problem beyond "events" and some elderly "retainers" who have given long and generous service, and at the very least that should be considered and looked at moving forward, by the Palace. Making use of relevant people who could help with wider learning, understanding and institutional change.

I'm shocked that people like you Chestnut can't acknowledge that there is an issue with racism in the UK. Of course it's worse in some other countries, but that doesn't mean we can't strive to eradicate it in the UK.

Iam64

Chestnut - have you listened to Nazir Afzal? It doesn’t matter the whataboutery. What matters is us our country improving it, nit denying there’s a problem

Irony that I pointed out the 'whataboutery' to another member on here earlier and was categorically told it wasn't (when of course it was!).

Chestnut - have you listened to Nazir Afzal? It doesn’t matter the whataboutery. What matters is us our country improving it, nit denying there’s a problem

Well I am shocked that people on GN seem to think the UK is such a dreadfully racist country, when all we are talking about is a misunderstood conversation. I don't see segregation, imprisonment or torture here, things that happen every day in other countries. Maybe someone can suggest another country that is less racist than the UK, because I can't think of one. It's really not so bad here but tearing your own country to shreds all the time seems to be a hobby with some on GN.

MerylStreep

I wonder what the back room people ( those who send out invites) are going to do about the next convention at the place.

If they have got any sense they will do a range of things.

1) Have a new and ethnically diverse meet and greet staff in place.

2) For existing employees, they will have employed a stringent diversity training course.

3) Included information on a range of racist (and sexist and other areas of discrimination) microaggressions and make it a condition of employment that their staff avoid them.

Sadly, I wasn't shocked Iam64, but I've seen it before on here. There is a proportion of GN that is racist. I was very shocked though at one claim that it's only racism if it is actually illegal.

Did anyone hear Any Questions? Nazir Afzal was absolutely clear this was a racist incident. I mention this because earlier in this thread, there’s the suggestion Afzal was asked where he came from at the same event. It’s said he answered Manchester and that he was wearing ‘western dress’, the implication being he’s the right kind of British Asian. In Any Q, Afzal was clear this incident reflects the racism in our country. He referred to his experiences of racism as a child and acknowledged the need for racism, line that Ms Fulani was subjected to, to ge called out.

I’m genuinely shocked by the casual and overt racism on this thread.

Ms Fulani isn’t interested in a meeting with this one individual, she wants change to happen in the institution she represents. Fair enough.

She appears to be trying to effect a recognition of a need for change in the Palace institutional approaches/thinking etc and how to support their staff with that.

No, but if it was the other way round and and the head of the company was white and laying down rules for her willingness to meet Ms Fulani, can you imagine the uproar?

Probably the same as in this incident in that people would be claiming that they were refusing to meet when in fact they aren't!

I would have thought the matter will definitely be addressed in any future gatherings, even without an apology

But the point is it is a bigger issue than "at events", its about how this could have happened at this event atall, how the causes behind that approach impact across a much wider issue than events.

Either way my original point was about accuracy of statements being made about a non existent "refusal" and that point remains

Ms Fulani isn’t interested in a meeting with this one individual, she wants change to happen in the institution she represents. Fair enough.

Whether one agrees with her methodology or not she is not refusing to meet with Lady H!
No, but if it was the other way round and and the head of the company was white and laying down rules for her willingness to meet Ms Fulani, can you imagine the uproar?
If Lady Hussey refused to meet under the rules laid down by Ms Fulani, especially since she’s already apologised, there’d be more shouts of racism.
I would have thought the matter will definitely be addressed in any future gatherings, even without an apology, so if Ms Fulani really means what she said in her prolific tweets, she’d lay off.
No, that’s not true, sorry. I’m sure what she says in her prolific tweets aren’t exactly what she means.

Mollygo

So a British Citizen won’t accept an apology-which would undoubtedly be heartfelt, except on her terms.
And if those terms aren’t met, she will undoubtedly continue to shout, abuse, violation etc.
In refusing to accept an apology unconditionally, she is giving a very poor impression of her role as a charity leader, and her role as a British Citizen.

Well that is one way if looking at it. Or she is trying to get understanding that there is a need to effect change across the system rather than focus purely on "dealing" with the immediate incident in isolation!

Whether one agrees with her methodology or not she is not refusing to meet with Lady H!!

By the way for anyone interested the Sistah Space accounts for 2021 are published online by Charity Commission, no apparent problems! I can't get the link to paste but easily found!

So a British Citizen won’t accept an apology-which would undoubtedly be heartfelt, except on her terms.
And if those terms aren’t met, she will undoubtedly continue to shout, abuse, violation etc.
In refusing to accept an apology unconditionally, she is giving a very poor impression of her role as a charity leader, and her role as a British Citizen.

FFS sure, but not for the reasons that you agree with Gagajo

I'm not sure if that is addressed to me ot not

My point was simply that she has not in fact "refused" to meet with Lady H as has been claimed several times

The point she appears to be making is that an apology may be provided but without meaningful change then the same or similar will happen again. She is probably right

Whether one agrees with her methodology or not it remains inaccurate to state that she has "refused" to meet or take an apology from Lady H