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Bertrand Russell, experts and scepticism

(17 Posts)
Namsnanny Tue 06-Dec-22 13:29:57

I'm sure many would agree.

Caleo Tue 06-Dec-22 13:24:46

Say for instance you own a large farm and can employ expert advice on plant diseases, land drainage, local public rights of way, and so forth you will want someone with appropriate qualifications for that specialist knowledge and experience.

It's very wrong if any school leaver is given the impression she knows all there is to know about any subject from Track and Field Athletics to ancient Greek .

Namsnanny Tue 06-Dec-22 13:08:07

Good for you Grantanow

Grantanow Tue 06-Dec-22 12:34:44

Expertise in any field is acquired by education, training and experience and depends on the ability of the individual expert. Expertise is frequently validated by examination (as for consultant surgeon or PhD, for example), peer review of published papers and books, and interviews for expert jobs (such as university professor or government statistician or bank economist). TV pundits may or may not be experts. Of course, experts may sometimes be wrong because scientific knowledge changes with discoveries or they may have unconscious bias but by and large I rely on expert views. Views from politicians, celebrities, self-proclaimed experts on education and anti-vax nutters I take with a large pinch of salt.

Namsnanny Tue 06-Dec-22 11:50:08

If = of

Namsnanny Tue 06-Dec-22 11:49:40

Experts in any field are extremely important when coming to any decision.
But....
Autonomy if thought and freedom of action is more so.

eazybee Sun 04-Dec-22 18:13:01

Well, everyone has received an education of sorts , which makes them an expert.
I think many parents have now realised that teaching is not the doodle they thought it was following covid.

Caleo Sun 04-Dec-22 14:08:33

Maizie wrote:

"I an appreciate that, Caleo, but I'm thinking of lower down the line of 'experts', so to speak. One of my experiences has been in the field of education, where it seems that anyone can proclaim themselves to be an 'expert'' It's a very grey area."

Teachers complain of this a lot. Many people don't understand that years of teacher education and classroom experience go into the production of a trained teacher.

Galaxy Thu 01-Dec-22 14:57:06

Oh fanny I liked that MN poster, I often didn't agree with her but she was very interesting.

MaizieD Thu 01-Dec-22 14:51:30

Caleo

Maizie, experts are assessed by their peers. So if you wish to know if your builder is really an expert, get his work reviewed by other or at least two other trusted builders.

Same for a GP. If you have reason to doubt his/ her expertise.
For instance to discover if he/she is an expert GP seek reviews by other competent GPs. In the case of GPs the reviewers are the GP's professional body the General Medical Council. Similarly for other experts; reviews by their peers.

I an appreciate that, Caleo, but I'm thinking of lower down the line of 'experts', so to speak. One of my experiences has been in the field of education, where it seems that anyone can proclaim themselves to be an 'expert'' It's a very grey area.

Stormystar Thu 01-Dec-22 14:32:31

“ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubt “ - Bertrand Russell

Stormystar Thu 01-Dec-22 14:19:12

I see it not as passion versus rationality but rather that together passion and rationale have tremendous power which often calls us into action, moves us beyond !
People with great passion can make the impossible possible, and passionate imaginings can pull you into a greater Vision
A quote from Cicero: “Zeno gives this definition of passion: Passion is a commotion of the soul opposed to right reason and against nature”

Caleo Thu 01-Dec-22 14:11:51

Maizie, experts are assessed by their peers. So if you wish to know if your builder is really an expert, get his work reviewed by other or at least two other trusted builders.

Same for a GP. If you have reason to doubt his/ her expertise.
For instance to discover if he/she is an expert GP seek reviews by other competent GPs. In the case of GPs the reviewers are the GP's professional body the General Medical Council. Similarly for other experts; reviews by their peers.

FannyCornforth Thu 01-Dec-22 13:54:23

There used to be a regular poster on MN called BertrandRussell.
They were very interesting.
I wonder if they are on here?

MaizieD Thu 01-Dec-22 13:45:41

How to define an 'expert' presents a problem for me.

Particularly as I've been on the 'wrong' ( but subsequently proven correct) side of experts a time or two over my lifetime..

Caleo Thu 01-Dec-22 13:02:49

There are objective criteria for expertise in arts, sciences, and physical skills.

However it's also necessary that everybody review these criteria, and that is why when children go to school they should be taught how to think but not what to think.

Elegran Thu 01-Dec-22 12:49:15

"Even when the experts all agree, they may well be mistaken ... Nevertheless the opinion of experts, when it is unanimous, must be accepted by non-experts as more likely to be right than the opposite opinion.”
[ FULL CITATION ]
"Even when the experts all agree, they may well be mistaken. Einstein’s view as to the magnitude of the deflection of light by gravitation would have been rejected by all experts not many years ago, yet it proved to be right. Nevertheless the opinion of experts, when it is unanimous, must be accepted by non-experts as more likely to be right than the opposite opinion.

The scepticism that I advocate amounts only to this: (1) that when the experts are agreed, the opposite opinion cannot be held to be certain; (2) that when they are not agreed, no opinion can be regarded as certain by a non-expert; and (3) that when they all hold that no sufficient grounds for a positive opinion exist, the ordinary man would do well to suspend his judgment.
These propositions may seem mild, yet, if accepted, they would absolutely revolutionize human life.

The opinions for which people are willing to fight and persecute all belong to one of the three classes which this scepticism condemns. When there are rational grounds for an opinion, people are content to set them forth and wait for them to operate. In such cases, people do not hold their opinions with passion; they hold them calmly, and set forth their reasons quietly. The opinions that are held with passion are always those for which no good ground exists; indeed the passion is the measure of the holder’s lack of rational conviction. Opinions in politics and religion are almost always held passionately.”
― Bertrand Russell, Sceptical Essays (1928), Introduction: On the Value of Scepticism, p. 12

From www.facebook.com/russellbertie