We'll *Do Something" about the strikes

eazybee

I believe generally the public support an increase in wages for some workers, (not train drivers) but do not support strike action because it is bullying those who have no power to influence the outcome. The salary overall of those earning large sums at the top, usually through bonuses, needs to be scrutinised and a fairer division of wages established, but the answer to that is always, if they don't get sufficient money they will go elsewhere. I am inclined to say let them, a chance for others to show their capability.

It's not just about money, it's about changes to working practices. Driver less trains anyone? Trains without a guard or someone to be onboard if there's any trouble?

This govt just doesn't have a clue about the lives of ordinary people and they don't care. The sooner they go the better.

“shareholders, who contribute nothing to the business, taking a large part of the profits.”

Without shareholders there would be no business, it’s their risk capital that funds the business, some make money some don’t. It is the profit that companies make that pay our pensions and ISAs

I support the unions and the strikes. The Tories would like to ban all strikes if they could.
People may not have much of a voice but without the unions we would have none.

biglouis

I too remember the winter of discontent in the 1970s. I do believe we are heading for a general strike.

This is the British way. In France they take to the streets and burn cars.

I think we are well on our way to a general strike. Seems similar to 1928.

Katie59

“shareholders, who contribute nothing to the business, taking a large part of the profits.”

Without shareholders there would be no business, it’s their risk capital that funds the business, some make money some don’t. It is the profit that companies make that pay our pensions and ISAs

That is start up capital, which is completely different.

I'm sure that you must have bought and sold shares, Katie59. If it was an established company the money you paid for them didn't go to the company, it went to the person who last owned the shares. Most shareholders are just gamblers.

The large companies which own our privatised utilities don't raise money from shares.

I'm a wee bit fed up with people telling me how it works when I know that it isn't like that at all.

The utilities and building societies were undervalued when they were first privatised partly because the then govt wanted "ordinary" people to become shareholders. A tranche was allocated to individuals and other tranches to pension funds etc. Many of the individuals who subscribed for shares sold them, at a quite decent profit. A good example of gambling.

Curtaintwitcher

All this will weaken our country even further and make it more vulnerable. What just happened in Germany could so easily happen here....a military take-over might be a good thing though. A bit of discipline is much needed.

Wow! That was exactly what the Daily Mail thought in the 1930s, which is why the paper supported the Nazis. I can't say that worked out that well!

In all my years I can't remember a time when there has been so much justified worker dissatisfaction with pay and conditions in so many sectors of public service, not even the piles of rubbish in the street under Edward Heath compares. Telling soldiers to drive ambulances is hardly a strategy. The government controls the public sector purse strings and they need to solve the problems, not waste time provocatively accusing workers of being unreasonable.

“Most shareholders are just gamblers.”

Maizie, you know that’s not true, most shareholders are pension funds and other investment companies who are making money of behalf of “us”. If they didn’t do that we would have no private pensions, no life insurance and no ISAs, they pay dividends which again benefit “us”. There are speculators of course who trade short term, most hold shares long term, you can call shareholding gambling if you want, just like any investment it’s a calculated risk.

So what exactly are the government doing? I'd really like to know. I see the strikes as justified and quite reasonable - considering that pay has effectively been cut and workers simply can't afford to live on their wages.

The rail privatisation was imo the most stupid one ever done, fragmenting services in our tiny country, allowing no easy overall strategies and planning:
some companies have failed already and goodness knows how much goes on extra management with the split companies. I know that Brit Rail had its problems but privatisation wasn't the answer. Ideology overrode common sense.

Katie59 But the people in the pension funds, etc who make the decisions are gambling. Hopefully, they're good at it and make the right decisions, but they're still gambling. They're not investing their own money to grow the economy.

Withregard to postal workers, no problem for where the money to pay them a reas.onabke l iving wage ca ciome from = The £567 million that has been paid to shareholders!!!!

growstuff

Katie59 But the people in the pension funds, etc who make the decisions are gambling. Hopefully, they're good at it and make the right decisions, but they're still gambling. They're not investing their own money to grow the economy.

Thanks, growstuff.

Just because we've become dependent on gambling in the financial markets for pension funds etc. does not mean that shareholders should take priority over workers when it comes to distribution of company profits.

We are back to my original contention; that shareholders, unless they are investing in a start up, or purchasing a new share issue, contribute nothing to earning the company's profits.

Wyllow3

The rail privatisation was imo the most stupid one ever done, fragmenting services in our tiny country, allowing no easy overall strategies and planning:
some companies have failed already and goodness knows how much goes on extra management with the split companies. I know that Brit Rail had its problems but privatisation wasn't the answer. Ideology overrode common sense.

I wonder if people who voted tory in 1979 actually understood what Thatcher's ideology was going to unleash on the UK?

So you’re condemning the whole financial services sector as not being in the public interest when the whole UK economy depends on the taxation they generate

Katie59

So you’re condemning the whole financial services sector as not being in the public interest when the whole UK economy depends on the taxation they generate

Errrmmm ... I wouldn't say it's the whole UK economy! The Treasury collects taxes from many other sources.

By the way Katie59, that's a strawman argument.Maizie didn't claim that all shareholders act against the public interest. However, there is a valid argument when an economy becomes unbalanced, which the UK economy is in so many ways.

growstuff

Katie59

So you’re condemning the whole financial services sector as not being in the public interest when the whole UK economy depends on the taxation they generate

Errrmmm ... I wouldn't say it's the whole UK economy! The Treasury collects taxes from many other sources.

The UK economy does depend on taxation at all.

The UK economy depends on people buying and selling stuff. Just as it always has done. The financial sector has its place but it's a parasite on the sectors that actually produce goods and services.

Maizie

I assume you meant "doesn't depend".

I agree.

Curtaintwitcher

All this will weaken our country even further and make it more vulnerable. What just happened in Germany could so easily happen here....a military take-over might be a good thing though. A bit of discipline is much needed.

Seriously?

growstuff

Maizie

I assume you meant "doesn't depend".

I agree.

I did, growstuff, thanks for spotting that

I would add to my last comment the fact that if it weren't for the buying and selling of 'stuff'. i.e commerce, the financial services industry wouldn't even exist...

Jeremy Hunt wants less regulation of the banks. I suppose we can look forward to another crash then.

MaizieD

Wyllow3

The rail privatisation was imo the most stupid one ever done, fragmenting services in our tiny country, allowing no easy overall strategies and planning:
some companies have failed already and goodness knows how much goes on extra management with the split companies. I know that Brit Rail had its problems but privatisation wasn't the answer. Ideology overrode common sense.

I wonder if people who voted tory in 1979 actually understood what Thatcher's ideology was going to unleash on the UK?

A few: I was pretty alert, but had no idea of the extent.

(Deep down Maisie, for me the worst unleashing was "there is no such thing as society",

in terms of how we now see each other and how we see the role of an involved, caring state as opposed to "free for all" "small state")