A & E Delays killing up to 500 per week

You can't really blame them for being worried.

When I had a heart attack, I was initially very hesitant about phoning 999. I was actually quite apologetic on the phone and said I hoped I wasn't wasting anybody's time. Thank goodness I did ring and somebody helped me with the phone call or I'd be dead. I honestly didn't realise how serious it was at the same time.

I expect most parents have been worried sick about their children, who aren't very good at describing symptoms. A sore throat could just be a temporary reaction to a cold or it could be a strep infection. How are parents/carers to know?I'm not surprised they err on the side of caution with them.

I think it's also worth pointing out (I know, sorry) that there are vulnerable people with communication disorders or complex disabilities who get sent to A&E with a carer because the GP doesn't know what is going on either and they may have something more serious going on rather than a UTI or whatever. I think we are guilty of thinking of statistics in neurotypical/non diverse ways

People don’t actually come in with constipation or a common cold, though. They present perhaps with stomach pain, which could be caused by a myriad of things, or with a sore throat/runny nose/cough which could also be any number of things but are eventually diagnosed as colds.

But Hetty and BigLouis people aren't being admitted at my local A&E with a splinter or constipation.

As I mentioned above, my last actual experience of A&E was in 2019, but I walked past the entrance many times over the last few months and the same system is in place. There's a huge notice outside explaining how the system works. People with minor complaints aren't causing the problems because they're not getting past the receptionist. I had assumed all A&Es are the same.

Next door to A&E is an Urgent Treatment Centre, which doesn't accept walk-ins. People have to be referred by 111 or a GP, so patients there aren't going with very minor complaints either.

The waiting times in A&E are being caused by people brought in by ambulance (who couldn't be treated by paramedics on the ambulance) and a few walk-ins who have already been triaged by clinical staff. I assume these people have some symptoms which are considered serious.

BTW, some healthcare professionals are being funded or part funded for training, my DiL gets a grant to help living expenses whilst she trains as a Speech Therapist, because there are shortages in her area of care. No excuse not to give the same for nurses now.

I'm not sure about her tuition fees or living expenses, but the student nurse I childmind for has been awarded a grant to cover 85% of her childcare fees during her three year degree course.
She said it's to encourage mature students to apply.

Yes, there are a number of different types of A&E units in the major conurbation where my dd works, Growstuff. There are dedicated Trauma, Cardiac/Stroke and Paeds Units so her general A&E won’t see many of those patients as they’ve been triaged to go elsewhere. Although some folk choose to go to their local A&E instead of the specialist unit. That’s difficult because local hospitals don’t have the sophisticated equipment the specialist hospitals have.

I think pretty much all child patients are triaged to be seen as it’s too much of a risk to turn them away.

biglouis:
'Why are people turning up at A&E with minor complaints like a cut hand, constipation or flu?'

Sometimes, there's no choice. A couple of decades back, I was cleaning a cupboard and got a splinter. It was about half an inch long and wedged firmly under a fingernail. My partner and neighbour tried but couldn't shift it. I went to a nurse who lives nearby - who wouldn't touch it and sent me to the pharmacist. They sent me to the GP, who (unbelievably) sent me to A&E!

One of the major causes of people attending A&E unnecessarily is the number of people who are experiencing homelessness. There are currently about 227 000 families experiencing homelessness. They will probably not be registered with a GP . Add to that some areas where there are no GPs and you have a substantial number of people who rely on A&E for any treatment.

Every time a government spokesperson, day after day, on the news, is confronted with the realities, their answer is, "but we put £xxxxx into the NHS recently and are investing in future training".

I am so angry.

yes, a Cobra emergency should be declared. But that would mean admitting how bad things were, wouldn't it?

BTW, some healthcare professionals are being funded or part funded for training, my DiL gets a grant to help living expenses whilst she trains as a Speech Therapist, because there are shortages in her area of care.

No excuse not to give the same for nurses now.

Well said Nanatoone.

Who on earth would want to pay to train to become a nurse to be treated like a work horse until, in our NHS, they breakdown. Also with the prospect of potentially being very cold at home and having to use foodbanks, you'd need to be crazy. I don't blame nurses for wanting to quit or to work abroad.

Our government does not value them or indeed us and is just hoping things will deteriorate even more so they can scrap the NHS and say its not sustainable.

It is so obvious to members of the public what could solve the problems, but politicians are incapable of and unwilling to taking the necessary steps to resolve things.

What we all need to take on board is that our country is in decline and going downhill at an alarming rate.

To be very honest I fear I might not be safe if I were to have a serious illness. It's like that in 3rd world countries where people die because of lack of money and resources! And I think people are turning up at A&E so readily as they lack the sense of security and care that used to be available and no longer is.

I think there are different classifications for A&Es. The only ones I've ever come across are of the Fort Knox variety. I doubt very much whether anybody with "just a cold" gets anywhere near a doctor - that's why I was surprised.

The last time I was in an A&E was in 2019, when I accompanied my son to A&E. He had dislocated his knee, which was causing him to cry with pain. He was a walk-in because we were told it would be quicker if we could get him to A&E ourselves rather than calling an ambulance. We took him in the rugby club mini bus because he couldn't bend his leg to get into a normal car. We were seen by somebody at reception after a few minutes and then somebody from the main A&E appeared with a trolley and he was wheeled off to be given a pain killing injection and treatment. We wouldn't have got past reception, if he'd only had a cold.

Or referred even! Though refereeing might also be appropriate.

The unit she works in seems to be a bit of a ‘dustbin’ unit, where they send people who have been turned away from other departments eg Minor Injuries or Trauma. There’s also a GP unit on the same site and they pass on patients too.

The hospital she worked at before was like Fort Knox! No walk ins, you had to come by ambulance or be refereed by a GP or 111.

SueDonim

My dd is a young doctor in A&E, so is at the forefront of this crisis. She says many of the cases she sees are really social/community problems, where medicine can do little for people who are lonely and unhappy rather than ill.

There is also a considerable lack of intrinsic knowledge, with people coming to A&E with minor colds. On one shift she saw only common colds. One person waited over six hours to be seen and when she finally attended to them, they said they felt better now anyway and left!

I'm amazed the people got past the triage system, which I know exists in my local A & E. Walk-ins aren't allowed into the main waiting area unless they're in a serious condition and ambulances won't pick up anyone with a cold.

This situation contributes to the underlying desire of the Tory Party and that is encourage the payment for care wherever possible. Run everything down until the desperate fund the necessary through any means. I remember Edwina Currie years ago advocating the taking money out of homes to fund what is needed in old age. It was the Labour Party who set up the NHS and despite their protestations the Tories have never wholeheartedly supported it. Add to this lack of training and the need for a degree to pursue a nursing qualification with the cost associated which leads to poor pay and conditions. Then the closing down of A&Es within months of the Tories regaining power after the efforts of the Blair government to shorten waiting times and build new hospitals. Yes the Blair government made mistakes when signing loan contracts involving difficult repayments but the waiting did go down dramatically. Centralisation was hailed by the Tories as an improved provision of care but involved increased travelling for the sick and was another ruse to cut costs while claiming improvement. The root of a lot of the trouble is the short term belief that staff could be gained from abroad and training could be cut back. This is my view of what has been happening over the years. I am sure there are other views and opinions.

HousePlantQueen

biglouis

Is the entire population now suffering from Munchassen's?

Why are people turning up at A&E with minor complaints like a cut hand, constipation or flu?

If you have flu you go to bed and take paracetamol.

For minor cuts and ailments the pharmacy can advise.

There are plenty of google articles and U tube videos telling you what to do for flu and colds without trekking to hospitals.

No wonder people who have strokes and heart attacks cant get treated.

I didn't realise you were now working as A&E triage, congratulations on your new job. Presumably you are sifting out all the self inflicted ailments such as alcohol or drug abuse too?

Why belittle people talking common sense?

I think people now seem to think of any little ailment as a crisis. Many of us lived through the 1950s and know that home remedies and simple things like honey and lemon, calamine lotion etc. were used for many ailments. I suspect many people don't have a clue, and for example don't have a first aid kit at home with dressings for cuts.

I think I've only ever been to A&E twice in my life, once for a cycling accident (broken thumb and deep grazing) and the second time for a severely broken arm (spiral fracture). These were genuine accidents that required medical attention because breakages were involved. One daughter attended A&E once as a child with breathing problems and once when she fell off her bike and smashed her front teeth. The other daughter has never attended A&E.

Dottynan

Our son had severe asthma and was told to get to A and E. He was admitted immediately and spent five days in hospital. He was saying in A and E there was a chap who had stubbed his toe and felt he should get immediate attention. When the receptionist pointed to him the dozens of ambulances outside and that there was at least 10 hours wait, he really kicked off.

Not with the foot with the stubbed toe, presumably

So easy to blame the Government.
Who are these doctors who are working fewer and fewer hours for the NHS because they are so stressed, yet are able to conjure up appointments instantly when paid?
At least be truthful.

My dd is a young doctor in A&E, so is at the forefront of this crisis. She says many of the cases she sees are really social/community problems, where medicine can do little for people who are lonely and unhappy rather than ill.

There is also a considerable lack of intrinsic knowledge, with people coming to A&E with minor colds. On one shift she saw only common colds. One person waited over six hours to be seen and when she finally attended to them, they said they felt better now anyway and left!

Ed Davey thinks that Parliament should be recalled to discuss these excess deaths. Having said that we’ve known for quite a long time that far more people were dying than should have been at this time of year but it’s just been ignored.

Chestnut

I'd like to know what is the situation in other countries?

Also, why can't they use the Nightingale Hospitals which were built to accommodate patients. At least they could solve the bed-blocking problem, moving people on who are ready to leave so the sick can be admitted.

The Nightingale hospitals were just a PR exercise. They never had the staff to man them for a start.

Of course more patients will die if they don't receive adequate treatment in A&E. The doctors' reps are talking this up and the NHS management is talking it down. That's just politics but it's clear to anyone that patients are being harmed everyday through lack of trained staff, lack of local authority domiciliary care services resulting in bed blocking and inadequate ambulance services, all compounded by recruitment, training and retention problems and the foreseeable consequences of Brexit for immigrant labour.

Of course, some of the 'flu' and 'colds' are probably actually covid; which is still rampant and which, unlike flu and colds, is causing people to have long term consequences.

The government should never have abandoned the population to let it run unchecked without any attempt at mitigation.

With all the headlines, news coverage and people dying, where is the government response? Long weekend?