Another dog tragedy

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Just to add, although I don't like dogs and am afraid of them, it makes my blood boil to see them, or any animal, mistreated.

In my long experience with dogs, most puppies are destructive. They don’t all receive publicity on national tv to be trawled out of the archives when an awful incident occurs years later though.

I wouldn’t mind betting that the Leonburger will have been the slowest to react in a panic situation, and the smaller dogs will have played an active part.

Good post Kate, well done.

Spot on, Iam.

Yes I'm assuming the large dog was to blame. I shouldn't assume. No I wasn't there obviously. I agree 8 dogs is too many to walk.

The news reports describe the lion burger’s owner as a celebrity psychic. No doubt getting onto one of these pup/dog tv programmes would help her profile.
Puppies chew everything. Experienced, responsible owners minimise their opportunity to practice such behaviour. There’s a quote from the vet practice the dog is registered with, saying the dog has a sweet nature.

The issue here is simple. One handler - 8 dogs, not her own dogs who live together but a pack thrown together. We need urgent legislation limiting dog walkers to 3 dogs and ensuring they have a legally recognised qualification. Guide dogs allow two dogs walked by their staff

Kate1949

Well it obviously was dangerous.

Not quite sure how you can know that for a fact the dog was obviously there but that’s all we know
It was by reports the biggest dog present but that’s all we know.

My reply was to rosie. We don’t have sufficient information to know that it was dangerous Kate. We don’t know exactly how and why the attack began. We will hopefully learn more in due course. I’m assuming you didn’t actually witness the attack.

Quite.

Well it obviously was dangerous.

Kate1949

If today's press reports are accurate, the person who owned the Leonburger should never have been in charge of such a big dog. Apparently when it was a pup, it was on a TV programme about unruly puppies. The owner named it Shiva (The Destroyer) because it was so destructive.

Oh please a destructive puppy does not make a dog dangerous nor does it then follow that the dog had a bad owner

If today's press reports are accurate, the person who owned the Leonburger should never have been in charge of such a big dog. Apparently when it was a pup, it was on a TV programme about unruly puppies. The owner named it Shiva (The Destroyer) because it was so destructive.

Actually it was the back of our hand we were told to offer a dog to sniff first.

Dinahmo we were taught to do that. I hope modern children are too.

Excellent advice Dinahmo.

I was brought up with terriers and had cairns and westies as an adult. We don't have children and so our dogs were not used to them. On the other hand, small children often think that they are like cuddly toys and will try to pick them up. Mine did not like the attention and so when we had small children visiting us I kept my dogs under strict control. One child visiting us would not leave the westie alone despite being told not to touch the white dog but that he could touch the black one ( a big softie bearded collie cross). In the end I took his hand, put my mouth around and pressed my teeth into it. It wasn't a hard bite but he got the picture.

If, when I'm out and about, I see a dog that I like the look of, I always ask the owner first if I can stroke it and then I just put my hand down for it to sniff before I touch it. People, of all ages, should learn to do likewise.

Why all this talk of off days, especially from someone who doesn’t own a dog? My dogs have had illnesses but have never attacked anyone when under the weather. This type of thread always attracts negative comments from people who don’t like dogs, which doesn’t assist constructive debate.

Gentle giants until they have an off day.

We may never know what actually happened this particular incident is very unusual.

Absolutely Blondiescot. People wrongly assume that large dogs are automatically more dangerous - they’re not.

In all my years of owning and being around very large dogs - and all those I’ve owned have been rescues - I have never been bitten.

Size is a concern, because if a dog is having an off day and feeling irritable a big dog losing its temper can do more damage.

rosie1959

Kate1949

It's emerging that one of the dogs concerned was an 11 stone Leonberger. Why would anyone keep a dog like that?

The Leonburger despite its size is usually a gentle giant and certainly not known to be aggressive.
I think they are beautiful dogs a cross between a newfoundland and St Bernard.

Many of the very big breeds are indeed gentle giants. The softest, most gentle dog I've ever known was a 10 stone Rottweiler called Rosie. If any dog had a reason to mistrust or hate humans, she did - she had a terrible start to life in the hands of a drug dealer who tried to hang her from a bridge. Fortunately, the rope broke, but she was left badly injured. She ended up being rescued by a friend of mine and was the most wonderful dog who absolutely adored people, especially children. On the other hand, the most vicious, bad tempered dog I've ever met was a Jack Russell who would snap at anyone given half a chance. I've only ever been bitten by a dog once - as a child - and that was a toy Poodle.

Our council only allow dogs off leads in the park, if they are off anywhere else, you are fined £75. People were complaining about loose dogs running towards them and if you are frightened of dogs it can be scary. It would be interesting to see how many dogs they allow you to walk together though.
I've been bitten twice, not by any of my dogs, other people's, the both times they were Westies. I was 8 yrs old when one bit me on my face and if a little higher I would of lost my eye. It never put off dogs, I adore them, but they need to be in the right people's hands. Some haven't a clue and are just an accessory, whether that's a 'hard man's' dog or a fluffy baby they all need trained, boundaries set, etc.
That poor woman getting killed is awful, but 8 dogs, to me, is far too many to handle. The pack instinct kicked in and what she went through is horrifying. I sometimes have my sister's dog along with mine, two small breeds, even trying to pick up poo can be awkward at times.
I collect donations for our local shelter and the manager gets so much abuse from people when she tells them a certain dog isn't suitable for their home. They try to match up best they can for the family and the rescue dog. Everyone else can just go and buy whatever breed they fancy and don't take a lot of things into consideration. Don't get me started on people buying off Facebook, etc.

As rosie1959 says, leonburger’s are usually gentle giants, as are many giant breeds.
The problem is no one can control 8 dogs, being walked together. They’re an unstable pack, from my observation of the vans that arrive at my park, they’re also stressed., barking and running in circles the minute they’re let out the vans. Many of these dogs live with owners who leave them alone for hours, do no obedience/agility or other training with them.

Responsible professional walkers walk no more than 3 dogs together and will have tested the dogs for temperament and seen two or three together in a safe enclosed field before taking them out.

My difficult unexpected circumstances last year, with 3 days a week hospital visits led me to find a dog Walker. She walks my big young lab on his own. He gets a lead.training walk, or retrieve and obedience/settle training in her enclosed field. I don’t want him racing about with several other dogs. What’s he learning there, only how to self reward and that his focus is on other dogs, not his handler.