The owner of a care home group paid himself at least £21m in the last 5 years. He holds 100% of the share capital and in addition paid himself £18.6m in dividends.

Rameses

OnwardandUpward

It's disgusting, but paying yourself dividends if you have a business is quite common.

Which is precisely why this 'government' has zero interest in the public sector and wants to privatise everything in sight.

I know. I'm not justifying it in anyway. It really stinks.

Like water and energy, essential utilities- they should never be for profit.

It used to be called "Granny farming"

A way to a quick profit.

Aveline

The best laid plans of mice and men gang aft agley!

No plan is ever 100% - it does not make it wrong to try to inform yourself and plan as best you can.

This thread shows clearly that the quality, safety, dignity, and care in so called 'care homes' is certainly not 100% garanteed! And people are entitled to want to choose otherwise.

Dinahmo, I'm so sorry bout your Mum

OnwardandUpward

It's disgusting, but paying yourself dividends if you have a business is quite common.

Which is precisely why this 'government' has zero interest in the public sector and wants to privatise everything in sight.

The best laid plans of mice and men gang aft agley!

Fraught with challenges indeed- I totally agree. The sooner you plan and get things organised, the better chance you have of keeping out of care home, if it is what you truly want. Easy it is not, I agree.

Fleurpepper

Aveline

You never know what's round the corner. Plan for the worst but hope for the best.
However, 'hope' won't find you good carers where and when you need them. It's just not possible to future proof your care needs. I see it time and time again as life and old age trips people up in ways they didn't expect.
By the time someone needs care they've lost their independence anyway or they wouldn't be needing care!

It is difficult indeed, I know. But your last sentence if the key- by the time it is too late, then it is very difficult. But everything can be done well in advance to make your home ready for most eventualities. And in some cases, ensure you have the space and that said space is suitable, for living-in help. Such help is available, is expensive, but much cheaper than a care home.

And it is also possible to decide that when you lose independence, you will make different choices, hopefully before too late.

The massive debilitating stroke is the one and only scenario that would make choice impossible. In such a case, it is massively important to have clear advanced directives, known to all close family members, GP and solicitor. To ensure that the survival is as short as possible.

How much is live in care at the moment Fleurpepper? I have a spare room (my sewing room, currently) but what about those getting Housing Benefit who would have to be in a home that bedroom tax applied to until such time as they needed a carer.

What too about the chance of a form of cuckooing? Don't get me wrong, I'm not against your suggestion. I just think it may be fraught with challenges - but then so is everything about us keeping ourselves as independent as we can.

Yes Norah I was agreeing with you .

MaizieD

Norah

I can't work out why it matters, assuming he funded legally, why it matters how he funded purchases. All people fund purchases and spend differently. Surely we're not all meant to be the same?

Same as the arguments about owning rental property, holiday homes, other real property. If paid legally, why begrudge it?

We've wandered somewhat from the topic but perhaps you have forgotten that he was paying himself these very large sums of money and making large profits while an number of his homes were of poor standard and the staff were underpaid.

That is what matters.

I understand. Homes of poor standards and underpaid staff is unacceptable.

Lots of points mixed in this thread.

My question, out of interest: does it matter how he funded purchase?

Norah

I can't work out why it matters, assuming he funded legally, why it matters how he funded purchases. All people fund purchases and spend differently. Surely we're not all meant to be the same?

Same as the arguments about owning rental property, holiday homes, other real property. If paid legally, why begrudge it?

We've wandered somewhat from the topic but perhaps you have forgotten that he was paying himself these very large sums of money and making large profits while an number of his homes were of poor standard and the staff were underpaid.

That is what matters.

Germanshepherdsmum

My sincere sympathies Dinahmo.

Early onset Alzheimer’s is especially cruel. I hope you are comforted by knowing that you did all you could. 💐

I still feel a bit guilty about not doing enough - I didn't go and see her as often as I should in the later stages because I was too much of a coward. I was in my early/mid 30s at the time of the diagnosis and as she regressed I became increasingly envious of those women of my age who I would see having a day out with their mothers which was something I would not be able be able to do.
My Mum had encephalitis when she was in her early 30s and had fluid drained from the top of her head. She didn't know that she had Alzheimers. She knew that she had something wrong with her head and put it down to the needles that were used when she was younger.

Around that time I remeber seeing a programme on the tv about Alzheimers and they interviewed a youngish man whose wife had developed it in her 30's. Far too young.

Aveline

You never know what's round the corner. Plan for the worst but hope for the best.
However, 'hope' won't find you good carers where and when you need them. It's just not possible to future proof your care needs. I see it time and time again as life and old age trips people up in ways they didn't expect.
By the time someone needs care they've lost their independence anyway or they wouldn't be needing care!

It is difficult indeed, I know. But your last sentence if the key- by the time it is too late, then it is very difficult. But everything can be done well in advance to make your home ready for most eventualities. And in some cases, ensure you have the space and that said space is suitable, for living-in help. Such help is available, is expensive, but much cheaper than a care home.

And it is also possible to decide that when you lose independence, you will make different choices, hopefully before too late.

The massive debilitating stroke is the one and only scenario that would make choice impossible. In such a case, it is massively important to have clear advanced directives, known to all close family members, GP and solicitor. To ensure that the survival is as short as possible.

biglouis

I once had a market research telephone job and one survey was aimed at those of 50 and over. A question asked was about their greatest fear. Top of the list were "loss of partner" and "loss of health". Third on the list was "losing my independence" which is what happens when you go into a care home, no matter how "nice" it is. I dont have a partner but I would prefer to be dead rather than lose my independence.

If the suggestion was to go from a fit, healthy, autonomous life to a care home, I could understand your extreme reaction. However, we are likely to be in a position where we are deciding if we should go from a complex and dependent life, possibly unreasonably reliant on family, to one offering you greater independence than you have at the time of the decision - otherwise, why would the question arise?

I assume the guardian has highlighted this because people cannot:

access their GP service

are stuck in the back of ambulances

add:

nurses are on strike

paramedics are on strike

general public are worried about their loved ones;

in hospital
in social care
at home that require care

and we are presented with one man who is making massive amounts of money out of this 'crisis' which appears to be 'man made'

Smileless2012

^If paid legally, why begrudge it?^ why indeed.

Are you agreeing with me?

If paid legally, why begrudge it? why indeed.

I can't work out why it matters, assuming he funded legally, why it matters how he funded purchases. All people fund purchases and spend differently. Surely we're not all meant to be the same?

Same as the arguments about owning rental property, holiday homes, other real property. If paid legally, why begrudge it?

He may have funded some himself Dinahmo, but if he owns or owned so many homes is that a vast return? Very few have been criticised.

My sincere sympathies Dinahmo.

Early onset Alzheimer’s is especially cruel. I hope you are comforted by knowing that you did all you could. 💐

Germanshepherdsmum

I know what business people do Dinahmo - I spent my working life acting for them. We don’t know what structure he used, but he can only pay dividends out of company profits and that arouses my suspicion that his own money was involved. We can’t know all the details as it’s a private company.

I do listen to what others say btw - hence my comments.

As the article said he held 100% of the shares. Of course he could only pay dividends out of company profits. Those profits will no doubt have been arrived at after deducting loan/mortgage interest and also his salary. He owns/owned 60 homes I think. I doubt very much that he would have funded the purchase of all them from his own pocket.

MissAdventure

Call me cynical, too.
Also, the home help service was a great one, too.

Age uk run one now, but it is pretty expensive.

My DM was diagnosed with Alzheimers aged 55, following a 2 week assessment at UCH in London. This was back in the 80s and they actually wanted to keep her in for longer but we said no. This was after we found out that they had taken her to the lecture theatre and talked to her on the stage in front of many people - students, researchers, whatever.

Through the local council we were allocated an home help who came in every week and tidied up and cooked her a meal. We had some disappointments with the home help. We bought a microwave and stocked up with M & S ready meals but the HH didn't approve of this and bought tinned potatoes which my mum and the rest of us had never eaten. The other problem that really bugged me was that one day I phoned Mum to say I would be down the next day. She was crying but I couldn't quite work out why. When I arrived she was out and she returned she was holding a dog's lead and was crying. It turned out that the dog, Tara had been out to sleep earlier in the week. The HH hadn't seen fit to inform us because "it was only a dog". Apart from that there were no problems and I would liked to have paid more for the service
but that wasn't possible.

One day when we were out walking, fell over and broke her thumb I think it was. She came to stay with me (in Brixton) for while. I contacted the local social services and they welcomed her into their day care centre, every week day. It wasn't possible for me to take the time off work.

It became that she could no longer live on her own so she went to live with my sister who wasn't working ( I thought that we could pay sister). It didn't work out because my sister had two young children at that time, plus a large dog and they didn't mix. Whilst my Mum was with my sister the latter applied to her local council for a railing to fitted alongside the sloping path to the front door. She also asked for a day care centre. The answer was that my mum would have to be assessed, despite the assessment from UCH. A day care centre would be available to her on day per fortnight.

The difference was the local authorities. The first two were Labour councils and the third ( my sister's) was Tory.

My sister found a nice home for her, with her own room. When I visited one day I found another person had been moved into the room and the fee had increased substantially. When we queried it we were told that we had known all along that it was a double room, which wasn't true.

After I moved to Suffolk I found a care home near me. The people were very nice and I was able to take my mum's dog, which I took on and my own. Most of the residents liked to see the dogs. I let them off their leads and they wandered around the sitting room, saying hello to everyone. The received a lot of cuddles.

The couple who ran this home were young - she was a mental health nurse, as was her MIL. One day, after a few years we received a phone call to say that the bailiffs had been to the home and we should go in for a meeting. It turned out that this particular home had been bought someone who had a few other homes but he'd decide to rent this one to the young couple. Apart from the initial rent they had paid nothing. The owner took over the running of the home and my mum stayed there until she died. The staff were very caring. I received a phone call one evening to say that my mum had pneumonia. The doctor had been and said she could stay there of it was OK because if she went into hospital they would only remove fluid from her lungs.
My sister and I stayed in the home with my mum for 1 week before she died. At night we slept in the day room and spent the days with her. The staff were exceptionally kind.

Alzheimer's is a funny illness I think. Some people turn quite nasty but others' like my mum, are quite docile. Even after she had forgotten most things and didn't know who I was, she could remember the hymns that she knew as a child and would sing along with them.

Mum is in a lovely home lots of staff who are all fantastic in how they treat residents.
The food is good every week they post the menus for the next 7 days.
If you had seen what they ate around Christmas.
Lots of lovely cakes every afternoon which visitors are given as well.
(Thank goodness I don't go every day otherwise I'd be like the side of a house)
She has dementia so doesn't know who anyone is or where she is.
Pays 3470 per 4 weeks.
Mil before she died was in a nursing home was a sh*t hole but couldn't move as
She was in during covid and it wasn't allowed. She was discharged from hospital to this place.
Food was awful no cakes unless we took some in for her. And for the privilege of not being able to walk but was of sound mind was paying £4480 per 4 weeks.

Visgirl, they have built quite a few places like that near to where we live and I would be quite happy to move into one of their serviced flats if the need arises. They really are the best of both for elderly 'care' (ie you'd have no idea other than obvious that you see carers)

A lot of people can't plan for care either. They are at the mercy of a system which isn't working