Sometimes I am ashamed

My point was not that the men were who they were (obviously, as I didn't know who they were). It was that they are men. The fact that men are cheering on another male, and that men are telling women what it is to be female, still stands, whoever the people in the photo happen to be.

I agree that it's even worse if they are politicians, as that lends 'respectability' to the bullying, but that wasn't the point I was making.

Shifting the emphasis to point out that I don't know who the men are' doesn't alter anything I said. I am not a political commentator, and don't claim to know who all politicians are or what they stand for. I was commenting on the current state of gender politics, which I see as very worrying indeed.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11664205/Police-investigate-decapitate-TERFs-sign-JK-Rowling-mocks-blindness-posing-politicians.html

Sorry, it's the Daily Mail. Try to get past the comments from the wizard woman and actually read the article.

Some MSPs were photographed in from of offensive signs. Women MSP's by the way

So they were there.
Right in front of the signs urging decapitation of those who disagree with them, but they were not actually holding them.

The Clinton excuse.

They must have heard of Jo Cox, David Amiss, Andrew Pennington (Aide to Nigel Jones) and others.

However strongly held their views, which they are entitled to hold, standing in solidarity with those who advocate terrorist tactics is just plain wrong and they must know that.

Have they lost their senses?

Try to keep up Callistemon

Been very busy, I do apologise for not keeping up. You know how it is, Real Life will intrude on Gransnet. [sigh]

B+ Callistemon must try harder.

Gosh, my spelling.

Anyway, you know what I meant.

This is interesting in a way the spread of misinformation...

Some MSPs were photographed in from of offensive signs. Women MSP's by the way.

In a whole different line of discussion, a poster with very strong views which she is entitled to hold, posts a picture of a group of men who she does not recognise, accuses them of calling for women to be murdered and says they were at a rally they never attended.

Try to keep up Callistemon.

A small group of prominent politicians who you do not recognise are accused of calling for women to be killed, which they have never done

They are accused of being at a rally which they did not attend on the basis of a photograph taken at a whole different rally in a whole different city on a whole different day.

Are you telling us that the politicians whose photos are in the picture in the OP were not actually there at that protest, standing in front of those placards but have been photoshopped into the picture?

Did they or did they not attend the protest where decapitation of those who disagree with the aims of the protest they attended was called for?

I agree. It's sometimes very difficult meeting a not very successful transwoman to take her seriously as one. Nevertheless I do try. It's obviously easier for some men than for others to look particularly female.

volver

So, here’s my semantics. Posters can call it “squabbling” or use any other dismissive description that they like.

A small group of prominent politicians who you do not recognise are accused of calling for women to be killed, which they have never done.

They are accused of being at a rally which they did not attend on the basis of a photograph taken at a whole different rally in a whole different city on a whole different day.

Whatever your thoughts on transgender people, calling a transgender woman a “man dressed as a woman” is despicable and the kind of attitude I thought we have left in the past.

So any evidence for anything you show us in the future Doodledog, will be subject to a bit of disbelief in my mind. And will definitely be thought by me to be a bit "unreal".

Ok

If a person looks so very obviously male that it’s a reasonable assumption he still has male genitalia then to me that is a man dressed as a woman.

The transwoman I've met wouldn't dream of carrying on in the aggressive, deeply unpleasant way that these activists do. They are suffering much more as a result of it.
If only this bill could be more sensibly redrafted and quietly passed. I know. That's a forlorn hope.

So, here’s my semantics. Posters can call it “squabbling” or use any other dismissive description that they like.

A small group of prominent politicians who you do not recognise are accused of calling for women to be killed, which they have never done.

They are accused of being at a rally which they did not attend on the basis of a photograph taken at a whole different rally in a whole different city on a whole different day.

Whatever your thoughts on transgender people, calling a transgender woman a “man dressed as a woman” is despicable and the kind of attitude I thought we have left in the past.

So any evidence for anything you show us in the future Doodledog, will be subject to a bit of disbelief in my mind. And will definitely be thought by me to be a bit "unreal".

BlueBelle

I have told my grandkids (all grown) that if they feel they would be better off in another country to not look back
It has all gone beyond belief some hideous mind sets around full of hate and spite

My father said exactkt that to me in 1987.

It should certainly not be a matter of opinion.

That's fine by me, GSM. I object to being told to 'get real' (whatever that means) and similar, but should try not to react to goading.

I do think that placards suggesting decapitation are objectively wrong though. I can't agree that that is a matter of opinion.

Doodledog

You may call it discriminatory language. I call it saying what I see.

There is someone who is clearly male (and there are other photos of similar situations on Twitter) being cheered on by other men whilst women are being threatened with decapitation. You can play semantics as much as you like, but it won't alter that fact. A man wants to be a woman, and is applauded by other men. Men tell women what being a woman is all about (just a 'feeling', apparently) and when they object they are called names and get death threats.

I agree with what Doodledog has posted - but let’s not get into another argument. As said on another thread yesterday, there is no right and no wrong, just different opinion yet to be altered by shared experience.
Less squabbling, more incisive comment I think.

A person who is very obviously a man, dressed as a woman, applauded for his misogyny by other men, sums it up very well for me.

You may call it discriminatory language. I call it saying what I see.

There is someone who is clearly male (and there are other photos of similar situations on Twitter) being cheered on by other men whilst women are being threatened with decapitation. You can play semantics as much as you like, but it won't alter that fact. A man wants to be a woman, and is applauded by other men. Men tell women what being a woman is all about (just a 'feeling', apparently) and when they object they are called names and get death threats.

Well, actually, you did. Your post, 9:51. My mistake, you did use discriminatory language after all.

Other pictures of the same rally show men cheering on other men who are dressed as women

(And it wasn't the same rally either.)

volver

^I didn’t refer to a prominent trans woman in Scotland as a “man dressed as a woman”^

Sorry, neither did you.

I see that the phrase was "man who wants to be a woman"

Which is true.

As we can't edit posts after sending, you altered your first accusation before pressing 'send', which seems a bit odd. Why not just not post?

Unless it was one of those 'Would the jury please disregard that last comment about the defendant being seen climbing out of the window wearing a mask' tactics?

The people I have most sympathy for are those who have been living quietly in their chosen gender for years, without causing any harm to anyone. The whole issue has become politicised (eg describing a free vote in the SG, which saw cross party support and dissent as only the SNP's 'Bill') and now embroiled in a cross border stand off. I ask people if they have ever known someone who has transitioned and the answer is usually 'NO' even though I know that there are trans people of their acquaintance - they just have not noticed because it has never caused a problem.

Well that is scary, Call. I don’t know of them,only Nicola Sturgeon is known over here.In the long run it won’t do them any good,though and they will likely lose their seats come the next election. Hope so, anyway. Commonsense should prevail and most Scots have plenty of that !

I am not ashamed of my homeland, but of those elected to run it.
I agree with Calli about complicity.

nanna8

But they’re just dickheads looking for publicity and getting it by the looks of things. Bunch of pathetic pinheads, you can’t judge a country by people like that.

Those pathetic pinheads include MPs and MSPs, nanna8.
They might not be holding the placards themselves, but they are complicit, standing in front and smiling.

They are supposedly representing the interests of their constituents. How many of their constituents are calling for beheadings and terrorism?

I’m not ashamed of my country, but I am ashamed and angry that this is the level of debate that is taking place over the gender issue. Made more so by the fact this is a councillor from the wonderful city where I live. There is a small number of people of the Jewish faith currently living in Dundee, I can only imagine how they feel reading headlines like this.

twitter.com/magigibson/status/1617265801773318145?s=61&t=iZheCnbnxFyYIesuF4_rMQ