Sometimes I am ashamed

I didn’t refer to a prominent trans woman in Scotland as a “man dressed as a woman”

Sorry, neither did you.

I see that the phrase was "man who wants to be a woman"

Doodledog

volver

I do. Most people in Scotland will. So perhaps a bit of knowledge rather than knee-jerk reaction would help your case a bit?

Did you see then (hear them?) calling for the death of women?

Get real Doodledog.

I am as entitled as you are to comment on a discussion board, volver. Trans supporters' silencing (or attempts to silence) dissenting voices is exactly the issue under discussion.

Can you read the placards?

Yes, I read the placards and very early on this thread I said what I thought of the people associated with them.

However I didn't try to suggest that the leaders of 2 political parties in Scotland were calling for the death of women. I didn’t try to associate a picture taken in Edinburgh of those people with a rally that was held in Glasgow. I didn’t refer to a prominent trans woman in Scotland as a “man dressed as a women”. I didn’t try to pretend I wasn’t anti-trans when my actions and language suggest otherwise.

Doodledog The TIM in your photo/post at 10.13 giving the speech is well known for his activism. He is called Beth Douglas, is a member of the Rainbow Greens and was in Holyrood the day the GRR Bill was passed (third photo).

Some people on Twitter think the person third from the left in the line-up of six in the third photo is the person holding the “decapitate terfs” banner. Others think it may be Emily Bridges, the Edinburgh University student involved in the recent event when him and other trans activists prevented the film “Adult Human Female” from being shown.

twitter.com/veritasalways1/status/1617064195144716289?s=61&t=XgfqK7m5flF9zO7yp6rSmA

twitter.com/caromitchell1/status/1617150338036793344?s=61&t=Lv-UcoPBqrp8TyBsUJA6IA

twitter.com/sresisters/status/1617020688677601281?s=61&t=gNmPDnPqO5aOCsi2Vsb2yQ

GrannyGravy13

That’s interesting Baggs if as you say the majority of Scots are against the Bill why were the SNP along with the necessary support from The Greens adamant about getting it approved?

Good question, GrannyGravy13. I feel disenfranchised now, as while I am an independence supporter, I am having serious doubts about voting SNP, couldn't bring myself to vote Tory, and Labour and Lib Dem have no chance of winning in a UK General Election in my constituency. The last two are just as keen on the bill anyway.

Bring back the Monster Raving Loony Party, as they were a lot more sensible than some of the others are rapidly becoming.

volver

One post from me before the massed ranks of the perpetually offended arrive.

I'm not ashamed of my country.

I'm fizzing about that pathetic person with the placard, just as I was at the moron who posted on Twitter that someone should drive their car into the counter demonstration. The police are investigating it and anybody associated with it should be subject to the law on the matter.

However does it make me ashamed of my whole country? No. Because that would be ridiculous.

This sums up how I feel too. Being ashamed of your entire country because of something like that - however disgusted you may be by it - is ridiculous.

Unfortunately, I don't think that the welfare of woman has influenced her in any way, though.

Agreed. And she should be ashamed of herself.

So should other politicians who let this nonsense get this far.

That’s interesting Baggs if as you say the majority of Scots are against the Bill why were the SNP along with the necessary support from The Greens adamant about getting it approved?

Which other country do you think would appeal to your grandkids, Bluebell?

Yes Baggs and I think Nicola Sturgeon knew this would be the case, the SNP have used misogynists to score a political point which they think will enhance their chance of winning any future independence referendum’s.

I wonder how this will play out for her. I thought it was a shrewd move, as forcing the hand of the UK govt will gain support for Indyref, but the more the TRAs behave like this, the more sensible Sunak's action will seem in comparison to Sturgeon's support of their movement.

Obviously it's a long game, but it will be interesting to see whether she's played a blinder or shot herself in the foot. Unfortunately, I don't think that the welfare of woman has influenced her in any way, though.

GrannyGravy13

Baggs

GrannyGravy13

In my opinion the SNP’s Gender Recognition Bill is a win win for all misogynists.

Except it hasn't "won". UK Parliament is blocking it. Quite rightly.

Yes Baggs and I think Nicola Sturgeon knew this would be the case, the SNP have used misogynists to score a political point which they think will enhance their chance of winning any future independence referendum’s.

I think it's a negative political point, though, GG. The majority of Scots do not support the Bill.

Baggs

GrannyGravy13

In my opinion the SNP’s Gender Recognition Bill is a win win for all misogynists.

Except it hasn't "won". UK Parliament is blocking it. Quite rightly.

Yes Baggs and I think Nicola Sturgeon knew this would be the case, the SNP have used misogynists to score a political point which they think will enhance their chance of winning any future independence referendum’s.

volver

I do. Most people in Scotland will. So perhaps a bit of knowledge rather than knee-jerk reaction would help your case a bit?

Did you see then (hear them?) calling for the death of women?

Get real Doodledog.

I am as entitled as you are to comment on a discussion board, volver. Trans supporters' silencing (or attempts to silence) dissenting voices is exactly the issue under discussion.

Can you read the placards?

GrannyGravy13

In my opinion the SNP’s Gender Recognition Bill is a win win for all misogynists.

Except it hasn't "won". UK Parliament is blocking it. Quite rightly.

nanna8

But they’re just dickheads looking for publicity and getting it by the looks of things. Bunch of pathetic pinheads, you can’t judge a country by people like that.

Hear, hear. This also.

In my opinion the SNP’s Gender Recognition Bill is a win win for all misogynists.

What volver says. Ditto.

Being disgusted with the behaviour of some individuals is nothing new and it is not the same as shame. There is a lot to be proud of in the UK. The SNP's Gender Recognition Reform Bill and everything associated with its extremeness is not one of those things.

I do. Most people in Scotland will. So perhaps a bit of knowledge rather than knee-jerk reaction would help your case a bit?

Did you see then (hear them?) calling for the death of women?

Get real Doodledog.

What have I exaggerated? I don't recognise the men. I am just saying what I see #catchphrase

Just coincidence that "the men" are Patrick Harvey, Ross Greer and Alex Cole Hamilton then?

When did Alex Cole Hamilton call for anybody's death? Doesn't sound like the kind of thing he'd do, with him being leader of the Lib Dems in Scotland, and all.

Exaggeration does nothing for the cause at hand, Doodledog

As Nick Timothy in the Telegraph said today:

“trans women with a certificate must always be treated as women: allowed into single-sex spaces, such as changing rooms, prisons and schools; permitted to provide intimate care to female health patients; sanctioned to participate in women-only domestic violence shelters and rape crisis centres. With no meaningful safeguards stopping men acquiring the necessary certificates, and with them the right to enter women-only spaces, the scope for abuse is clear.”

I think it’s scary. A tiny minority are behind all this while the rest of us watch events unfold in horror.

I've sorted it! This is what I mean. The men are cheering one of their own (who is clearly a man who wants to be a woman), and shouting for the death of actual women who question this.

What is this other than misogyny?

Well they already have so you can sleep peacefully in your bed.

I don't recognise my homeland either after seeing those placards. Those politicians need to speak out now in full support of the police investigation. I hope they will.

nanna8

But they’re just dickheads looking for publicity and getting it by the looks of things. Bunch of pathetic pinheads, you can’t judge a country by people like that.

You can't, nanna8. And yes, they are a bunch of aggressive bullies, but the point is that politicians and public figures will not stand up to them or speak against them, and that, IMO, is shameful.

Without fail, when this topic is discussed on TV or radio (and even that is a recent development - until recently it came under the 'No Debate' mantra - the phrase 'most marginalised and vulnerable members of society' is trotted out, so make it sound as though objectors are puppy-kicking monsters. Do these people look marginalised and vulnerable? What does that phrase even mean? Yes, the TRAs are at the extreme end of the spectrum, and there are people who share some of their beliefs who are not remotely violent; but that is true of most causes which are supported by terrorists. Why is the law not applied to the extremists in this cause? How is it ok to threaten women?

Other pictures of the same rally show men cheering on other men who are dressed as women and railing at actual women who object to their spaces being colonised and their privacy removed*. You couldn't make it up. And of course this impacts on the cause of 'genuine' transpeople, and of course it shows that it is not 'kindness' that is driving this - it's far more sinister than that.

*I'm having issues with my screenshotting, but will try to sort it out and get the photo I mean (it's on Twitter) and post it.

Hadley Freeman, previously with The Guardian and now with The Sunday Times, wrote yesterday "The movement is underpinned by a frothing misogyny that is becoming all too visible to even the most casual observer"

I think many of us read about Rosie Duffield's experience of being jeered by men in her own party whilst addressing Parliament on Scotland's Bill, most notably by fellow MPs Ben Bradshaw and Lloyd Russell-Moyle, the latter crossed the floor of the house to sit in the Conservative benches so he could stare fixedly at Conservative MP Miriam Cates who also spoke about the threats the bill poses to women's dignity and safety. Russell Moyle called Cate's speech "disgusting" and added a finger wagging "you should be ashamed"

Hadley Freeman in her article went on to write "Gender activism has become the permissible face of misogyny for a certain kind of allegedly progressive man, it gives them latitude to call women derogatory names and make spittle flecked videos insisting that anyone who has a problem with male born people in women only spaces is on the wrong side of history. The effect is men's rights activism but the energy is very incel"