Sometimes I am ashamed

Yes, I understand that. Who'd want to be a barrister!

I've sometimes wondered how, in all conscience, can you defend that person?
How do you sleep at night?

Callistemon21

A defence barrister will try everything within legal boundaries to try to get their accused client found innocent, to the extent of causing untold distress to the real victims in the case, whatever the barrister may privately feel.

Yes, I understand that. Who'd want to be a barrister!

Unfortunately, his words will register with the anti TG community and TBH not everyone understands that a defence barrister is not necessarily recording his own private feelings about his client. I do think he's over-egged it a bit though.

None of this is going to help transgender women, as a whole. There's plenty of discrimination against them - this just adds fuel to the fire.

Of course, TG activists would tell us that even discussing it is transphobic. If a man identifies as a woman, he's a woman as far as he / she is concerned - no discussion.

Womanhood is being defined for women - by men. Some activists are so far down the rabbit hole that they can declare they are "more of a woman" - than a natal woman. India Willoughby on JKR.

I'm not a nostalgic and don't hanker for times past at all - but I do now wish we could go back a bit and do a re-set. If people are now afraid to discuss the issues involved in what is a serious, and for some, life-changing, matter... then we are rather doomed.

Oh sorry farnorth, is Alice Sullivan from Womans place? I am sure I know her from one of those organisations.

From February 2022 :
Scotland's police will review a policy which means male rapists are officially recorded as being women if they "identify as female", after an outcry by women's organisations.

www.lbc.co.uk/news/police-scotland-launch-review-of-policy-which-lets-male-rapists-identify-as-wome/

I wonder what progress has been made with that review.
I'm not optimistic about it.

4W is not Fair Play for Women.
4w.pub/about/
It was started by a writer called M K Fain.
marykatefain.com/

Smileless2012

It's wrong in any circumstances for a male accused of rape to be referred to as she and/or to insist that they're addressed by their first name if it's a name only associated with women.

The offences were committed when Bryson was a man... but is now convicted - as a woman?

That is simply wrong. I don't mean it's not happened but the whole concept of it is wrong.

Rape by penetration with a penis cannot be carried out by a woman.
Should this case be recorded as Adam Graham aka Isla Bryson or Isla Bryson formerly known as Adam Graham?

Dickens

I admit I'm not up to speed on transgender issues, but I have been pondering on and off during the evening...

If a man who has raped a woman (or more than one in this case) later identifies as a woman - what is he actually identifying with? What does he associate with ^womanhood that makes him want to identify with it?

This is not a facetious question - I genuinely don't understand. Because it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I understand individuals, men and women, not wanting to conform to stereotypes of either sex (I never have wanted to be a stereotypical woman either).

He's guilty of rape of women - and now wants to identify as one?

Because he now wants to portray himself as a victim.

Is he convinced, delusional or manipulative?

A defence barrister will try everything within legal boundaries to try to get their accused client found innocent, to the extent of causing untold distress to the real victims in the case, whatever the barrister may privately feel.

It will be Fair play for Women, they have done a lot of work on this issue.

Galaxy

They were recorded by gender identity at one stage but I thought the Tories announced that it would revert back to sex. I have no idea if that happened, the government say a lot of things, doesnt mean it actually happens.

Earlier this year, Professor Alice Sullivan of University College London submitted a petition to the Scottish government demanding police more accurately record the sex of rapists. According to her petition, "Rape is classified as a male crime in UK law, and females can only be charged with rape as an accomplice," yet her data shows that between 2012 and 2018, a total of 436 males prosecuted for rape were recorded as women.

... from "4W" - and I've no idea who "4W" are... 'for women'?

436 males prosecuted for rape recorded as women does skew the statistics though. 436 women did not commit rape.

They were recorded by gender identity at one stage but I thought the Tories announced that it would revert back to sex. I have no idea if that happened, the government say a lot of things, doesnt mean it actually happens.

Galaxy

I dont know if it's an axe to grind so to speak, she is making claims of controlling behaviour, violence and attempted rape, the police were involved in one of the incidents, that's easily verified one way or the other.
I thought statistics were now recorded by sex but am doubting myself now.

I admit I only scanned the news briefly on what the ex wife had to say - but yes, if the Law was involved in any of the incidents, then it's easily verifiable.

I'm just attempting to be rational about the whole affair, but the Defence's portrayal of Bryson and the ex-wife's picture are quite contradictory.

... and I'm not sure about the recording of the statistics either.

I would assume that a crime committed by a man regardless of the time that elapses between the event and the conviction is recorded by sex - but maybe the statistics are recorded per conviction? I'm confused.

Joanna Cherry, one of Ms Sturgeon’s MPs, said she was “very concerned about the safety of the women prisoners with whom a convicted rapist has been placed”.

Ms Cherry added: “Under Scots law, the crime of rape can only be committed by somebody with a penis, and that’s a man. I think we should call out what’s happened here.”

Hear, hear.

Common sense in Scotland is being replaced by common purpose. The politicians have an agenda and are forcing the hand of the electorate. Who will say nay? Thankfully Joanna Cherry for one. I like her, she’s full of common sense. And Jackie Baillie (Labour). Someone needs to hold Sturgeon’s feet - and those of the Greens - to the fire. They are taking the Scottish electorate for fools.

I dont know if it's an axe to grind so to speak, she is making claims of controlling behaviour, violence and attempted rape, the police were involved in one of the incidents, that's easily verified one way or the other.
I thought statistics were now recorded by sex but am doubting myself now.

Galaxy

I dont want anyone to be harmed whatever they have done. I want prisons to be segregated by sex.
I also want victims of sexual assault not to be further victimised by having their Male rapist described as she.

How will Bryson's conviction appear in the 'Statistics'?

The offences were committed when Bryson was a man... but is now convicted - as a woman?

I also want victims of sexual assault not to be further victimised by having their Male rapist described as she.

Yes, I find that somewhat grotesque.

But what is even more grotesque (IMO) is that Bryson's defence has attempted to portray the defendant as a victim because of his emotional turmoil at the time of his marriage breakdown. Which, apparently, precludes him from being a 'predatory' male.

Edward Targowski KC, for the defence, described the three main witnesses in the trial as “vulnerable”, adding: “And that includes Isla Bryson.”

The Defence has introduced the idea that rape is somewhat 'understandable' so long as the man isn't considered predatory, and is going through emotional troubles. I know he didn't actually say that, but it is what is inferred, isn't it?

If Bryson is compos mentis, then she at the time of the rapes should've been able to understand that No means No, and that rape is rape. And if she's not rational, then one can question her commitment to identifying as a woman - no? She was, apparently, aware at the age of four that she was in the 'wrong body'.

Bryson's ex wife says she's a sham and is scamming to avoid being detained in a male environment. But then she (Bryson's ex-wife) obviously has an axe to grind.

Galaxy

I dont want anyone to be harmed whatever they have done. I want prisons to be segregated by sex.
I also want victims of sexual assault not to be further victimised by having their Male rapist described as she.

This!

I dont want anyone to be harmed whatever they have done. I want prisons to be segregated by sex.
I also want victims of sexual assault not to be further victimised by having their Male rapist described as she.

Dickens

I really don't believe that volver is sticking up for rapists (and I'm not a fan of volver).

I believe she's defending a principle - or a point.

I'm totally opposed to capital punishment - but that doesn't mean that I'm defending murderers.

I second that.

I really don't believe that volver is sticking up for rapists (and I'm not a fan of volver).

I believe she's defending a principle - or a point.

I'm totally opposed to capital punishment - but that doesn't mean that I'm defending murderers.

FarNorth

Sticking up for rapists- not a good look volver.

How dare you.

You've all lost the way, just like the vigilante thread.

Reported.

Seems like it nanna8.
Luckily, tho, volver isn't even the thread monitor around here, never mind international legislator, so I think that rule can safely be disregarded.

Btw, when asked, MSPs say that the Scottish Prison Service makes its own rules and ScotGov has no responsibility for how it runs its prisons.

So that's all right. 🙄

So those who have been oppressed women in Iran and moved to Australia shouldn’t be critical of Iran because they don’t live there anymore? No one can criticise the land of their birth because they don’t actually live there anymore?

M0nica

I assume he will be isolated from other prisoners, not sharing a cell with natal women.

Or can I assume that, sigh.

That has been said in some reports M0nica but see my above post - you can't assume that at all.

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