Woman found guilty of raping two women. Remanded in custody for sentence end February

I think this example shows exactly how dangerous the law is as it has been prescribed in court by a judge based of current legislation. The fact this could be applied in the community and open to 'manager' decisions in all kinds of industries inc care, shows how interpretations of law or even application of law re self ID would have catastrophic outcomes.

NONE of this is transphobic

VioletSky
You have inferred a couple of times that because of the age demographic on GN we just don’t understand. Not your exact words.
I know you read MN so what do you make of their comments, you can’t give age as a reason, can you?

Whatever you want/need doodledog

VioletSky

Never mind

I'll just go away

The usual reasoned discussion when faced with the unanswerable questions. . .

Galaxy

Eh I didnt suggest you were did I. I just got distracted by the BBC making complete arses of themselves, excuse my French.

The BBC might have pulled away from Stonewall but they’re still spouting the twaddle.

Never mind

I'll just go away

So are you now saying that some transwomen are men and are pretending to be women, but it's not ok for me to say some other transwomen are men because that would be transphobic.

We've been here before, haven't we?

Fact-based feminists - Not all men who want to access women's spaces are genuinely transwomen. Some are fakes.

Trans allies - Terf! Be kind! Let them be their authentic selves! TWAW! Saying that some transwomen are fakes is hate speech!

FBFs - No, it's not. It's just that there is no way of telling whether a man in a dress is a genuine transwoman or, well, a man in a dress. Is there?

TAs If a man says she is a woman she is a woman! Terf! Be kind!

FBFs But it happens. There are lots of reports of men raping women claiming to also be women. They are fakes. (^gives examples^)

TAs humph. It is very rare! Be kind! Dysphoria! Terf!

FBFs We don't care if it's rare. One woman having her life ruined is one too many. As long as men are allowed into women's spaces there will be rapes. Mark our words.

TAs TWAW!

FBFs Right. This has happened again. A man is pretending to be a woman because he wants to go to a woman's jail after raping women.

TAs Oh, but he's not a real TW. He's a fake! Be kind. Terf. Dysphoria. Authentic self etc.

Ignoring that Mollygo too confrontational for a reply

It's simple

I think trans women belong under the umbrella of women, which means no direct or indirect harm by denying them female pronouns or name changes. No calling them men. Ensuring they have safe spaces and access to gender affirming spaces.

Now I always say trans women and women, because there are differences between us. We need different medical care and different mental health support. I also believe that distinction would make it easier when dating as another example and easier to categorise sports as well as easier to determine who belongs in what safe space while providing space accessible by both. An example of that might be, a woman's swimming afternoon and a woman and transwomans swim session.

This ensures women have safe spaces, fair sports and so do trans women in categories that sometimes overlap and sometimes don't provuded that the needs of everyone are being considered

I think that's logical given the issues that are cropping up and I'd like an end to transphobic comments, abuse to masculine appearing women and butch lesbians and death threats or violence on either side.

This is logical to me in finding a way forward that gives others what they need and sometimes what they don't know they need.

I don't doubt there are women and trans women who would disagree with me but when people are being harmed a compromise has to be achieved somehow. Neither are going to go away and arguing or violence in words or deed are not the answer

Any man pretending to have gender dysphoria in order to have access to victims is not a trans woman.
😱😱
No no VS! Are you admitting that some men pretend to have gender dysphoria and use that pretence in order to access victims?

I agree they might not be TW,
but VS do explain how you would be able to tell the difference between a genuine TW who uses their gender dysphoria to access to female spaces and to attack victims and any person who claims to have gender dysphoria and claims to be a trans woman, in order to access female spaces and attack victims.
If you have that ability to easily differentiate between the genuine TW who attack victims and the pretend TW who do likewise, you could be in great demand!

Who decides what is 'common sense'?

To me, a solutions-based approach would be to segregate by sex. Why does someone's so-called 'gender identity' entitle them to 'live as a woman' in jail?

Unless anyone has a better definition (and I'll happily listen to it if so - after eating my hat), it seems to me that 'gender identity' is about a feeling and a perception of what a female lifestyle might be. It is a preference in clothing, hairstyle, make-up and so on. I can't see how anyone can expect those things to be relevant in the setting of a prison.

People are entitled to basic accommodation, and 'lifestyle' is also pared back to encompass a basic but humane standard of living. Food, exercise and a certain level of entertainment are provided, but those things are the same for men and women. AFAIK we don't have conjugal visits in UK prisons, although I'm prepared to be corrected on that - a preference for a sex life is not usually accommodated, and that is a far more universal and basic human need than the right to be called 'she' and wear a dress. People whose lifestyle involved using drugs and alcohol have to forego that when in jail, even when it causes them physical discomfort. Mothers are only allowed to have their babies with them if there is a place in a unit, and if their sentence is short.

Why is a trans lifestyle seen as fundamental when so many other basic facets of life are not?

My solution is no men in womens spaces, you asked me or I thought you did how I would avoid this harming transwomen, is that not what you meant. Do you mean where would they go?

Galaxy

I dont think sex segregation is harmful VS. My brother is not a criminal, neither is dh, neither have any business in womens spaces, it's not harming them to tell them that.

Sorry but can you reread what I actually said please because this makes it appear I said something else entirely

Smileless2012

The only way that I can see to prevent any potential abuse arising out of self ID, is to not allow men to access women's spaces.

I agree that there needs to be more funding and one area of funding needs to be appropriate places for trans genders to feel safe; hospital wards, prisons, safe houses etc.

What should not be happening is access to the aforementioned being granted to men who self ID as women.

Now this I can get on board with

Can we add more education to society as a whole and more mental health support and more research into why people become abusive in the first place and how to prevent it?

Because abusive people are everywhere, daily destroying lives in all sorts of ways and I'm so tired of it

I dont think sex segregation is harmful VS. My brother is not a criminal, neither is dh, neither have any business in womens spaces, it's not harming them to tell them that.

How does saying that trans women are men causing them harm? It's a biological fact.

Galaxy

I have given you my solution. No men in womens spaces, whatever feelings those men hold and whatever they believe themselves to be.

Good, now tell me how you are going to adhere to that part of the equality act while not actively being harmful to trans women who are harmed both directly and indirectly by those who say they are men?

The only way that I can see to prevent any potential abuse arising out of self ID, is to not allow men to access women's spaces.

I agree that there needs to be more funding and one area of funding needs to be appropriate places for trans genders to feel safe; hospital wards, prisons, safe houses etc.

What should not be happening is access to the aforementioned being granted to men who self ID as women.

Eh I didnt suggest you were did I. I just got distracted by the BBC making complete arses of themselves, excuse my French.

Galaxy

So when a transwomen says I am a women we need to believe them except when they are a man pretending to be a woman. And we tell the difference between those two how? Those two groups of people are all of the same grouo of people - men.

With this piece of pond life you don’t have to look far. It’s there for all to see.

FYI

I've said this many times but I am not a spokesperson for any organisation and I'm not affiliated with any group.

I just think we need a common sense approach

I have given you my solution. No men in womens spaces, whatever feelings those men hold and whatever they believe themselves to be.

Galaxy

So when a transwomen says I am a women we need to believe them except when they are a man pretending to be a woman. And we tell the difference between those two how? Those two groups of people are all of the same grouo of people - men.

I have theoretical thoughts about how we do this and I agree women's safe spaces need thevprotection afforded by the equality act but I can't work with this

Solution based please

Oh and the BBC bless their little hearts are describing this man as a transwoman.