Guy Verhofstadt says “Happy Brexit Day”

I notice that Brexiteers here do not deny all the disadvantages arising from Brexit which I and others have listed at length. It is all, alas, water under the bridge because no major Party with a hope of being in government wants to renegotiate entry to the EU and the valuable single market instigated by Thatcher and there is no guarantee the EU members would want us back. The only hope is a renegotiated treaty with better terms than those negotiated by the incompetent and careless Johnson who lied about some of the consequences e.g., no border in the Irish sea, no problems for fishers, no problem with farmers' pickers. My fear is that the Tories will get back in as a coalition with the Lib Dems. I voted Lib Dem to keep the Tories out and they ratted 13 years ago and I have no reason to suppose they wouldn't rat again once they saw the Ministerial salaries and expenses, cars, red boxes, etc., dangled by a Tory leader. The recent comments on the state of our hollowed-out military together with a lack of serious economic growth tells me we are sliding down from being a power in the world.

And currently, Barbara Meaden said it so well on Newsnight very recently.

fb.watch/irqmqUTYdN/

a disaster for business, including all small ones, and innovation.

He said it so well in 2002

fb.watch/irpwt_tABc/

Brexit had to be clearly defined, before Referendum. It was NOT, and those who voted for it can say 'we knew exactly what we voted for' all they want- it is nonsense. No-one knew what it was, let alone the Governement at the time, and the others after that, including the current one. NO-ONE.

Yes, very interesting DaisyAnne and therefore it’s good that the UK government have set such a target for 2030. Seems the students still want to come here to study then.

Urmstongran

I apologise as I’m wrong.

www.gov.uk/guidance/studying-in-the-uk-guidance-for-eu-students#:~:text=The%20EU%20Settlement%20Scheme%20allows,without%20applying%20for%20a%20visa.

It's might interest you to know that University Education and UK Boarding Schools in this country and the schools set up by our privately paid for schools as International schools overseas, are seen by some as one of Britain's most important exports.

Higher Education Institutions contributed £13.4 billion to U.K. revenue in 2016. Given the importance of this income stream, it is not surprising that the U.K. Government has set a target of 600,000 international students studying in the U.K. by 2030.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/773167/SFR_Education_Exports_2016.pdf

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/799349/International_Education_Strategy_Accessible

commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-7976/#:~:text=In%202018%2F19%20there%20were,EU%20and%20343%2C000%20from%20elsewhere.

www.linkedin.com/pulse/uk-education-britains-most-important-export-mark-steed

MaizieD

^I’m not sure Siope that this bear of little brain can sort out the GFA on the back of an envelope this morning. I don’t have a clue how to resolve it. In time however, I’m sure pragmatism will prevail and more intelligent people than I will find a solution.^

Most uncivilly, I will point out that bears of little brain shouldn't talk nonsense about things they don't understand.

We are all bears of little brain in some aspect of our lives but, like Pooh, full of wisdom in others.

Perhaps it behoves us all to admit that much of what we "know" is opinion, hopefully built on the facts we can find and understand but not on lengthy learning in that area.

Lib Dems are now also saying that rejoining now is off table and that we have to work to improve our relationship with Europe. Despite wanting to rejoin, I think that is the right thing to do initially. And they are now both singing from the same hymn sheet- and I so hope they will cooperate, make an alliance even, with Greens on board and possibly SNP- to fight to get rid of those fraudulent Tories (not all Tories are, but the current lot is) and fight for this common goal.

And for people to vote tactically to achieve this. My vote will go to Lib Dems- as there is, for the first time ever, a real, palpable, chance that Lib Dems will win in my staunch Tory Constituency.

The research DD does has been massively hit by the loss of EU grants and, now that travel is possible again, she finds that foreign colleagues are confused and pitying about the UK's exit. Still I'm sure a Brexiteer will find an upside to this - perhaps going back to casting the runes rather than actual science?

Urmstongran

I’m not sure Siope that this bear of little brain can sort out the GFA on the back of an envelope this morning. I don’t have a clue how to resolve it. In time however, I’m sure pragmatism will prevail and more intelligent people than I will find a solution.

I think you make a valid point about whether or not we are being treated unfairly by the EU. Yes, we are considered now a ‘third world country’. It’s probably just how I perceive it and what I’ve heard on tv over the years - that the EU most definitely don’t want the other 26 countries to consider breaking away. Whatever, I’m sure we will manage. We have so far and I truly believe things will get better. Technology, smarter and more efficient systems will evolve for instance cutting time which companies (small and large) need more of for smoother operations.

As regards WTO that ship has sailed anyway.

We are not considered a third world country Urmstongran!

A 'third country' as defined by the EU is: A country that is not a member of the European Union as well as a country or territory whose citizens do not enjoy the European Union right to free movement

Of course, we may, if this government has it's way be considered a "third world country" by the whole world at some point. It just depends how quickly they completely impoverish us.

Brexit: "The economic damage caused by the UK leaving the EU single market and customs union already exceeds the total cost of UK membership of the EU between 1973 and 2020."
Robert G. Patman
Professor of International Relations

I apologise as I’m wrong.

www.gov.uk/guidance/studying-in-the-uk-guidance-for-eu-students#:~:text=The%20EU%20Settlement%20Scheme%20allows,without%20applying%20for%20a%20visa.

I didn’t realise until recently varian that EU residents came to our universities and (like in Scotland) didn’t pay fees. Maybe the universities will make more effort now to teach our home grown scholars as places won’t be so limited.

The news & politics thread is open to everyone with an opinion MaizieD. I do appreciate my wittering must annoy the hell out of you. Heaven forfend however that only people of high intellect are allowed to join in. No wonder other posters are wary of stepping into this bear garden of a forum. I do often provide links now if I read anything to show my source.

Horrifyingly, although I’m not the sharpest tool in the box, just think, others - some of whom have even less intelligence than me - get to vote in general elections and referendums! Beggars belief doesn’t it? It must gall you terribly o contemplate that fact.

The UK government said the UK Shared Prosperity Fund would match EU funding.

Like, the money for farmers would match the lost single Farm Payment? (It doesn't)

I’m not sure Siope that this bear of little brain can sort out the GFA on the back of an envelope this morning. I don’t have a clue how to resolve it. In time however, I’m sure pragmatism will prevail and more intelligent people than I will find a solution.

Most uncivilly, I will point out that bears of little brain shouldn't talk nonsense about things they don't understand.

www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-64483923

About 1,000 university research jobs are at risk unless the UK government urgently replaces European Union funding, bosses have warned.

Universities Wales said the loss of large-scale EU funding access has put the research and innovation sector on "the precipice of a disaster".

One researcher said she had put her wedding on hold after being told she would be made redundant.

The UK government said the UK Shared Prosperity Fund would match EU funding.

I’m not sure Siope that this bear of little brain can sort out the GFA on the back of an envelope this morning. I don’t have a clue how to resolve it. In time however, I’m sure pragmatism will prevail and more intelligent people than I will find a solution.

I think you make a valid point about whether or not we are being treated unfairly by the EU. Yes, we are considered now a ‘third world country’. It’s probably just how I perceive it and what I’ve heard on tv over the years - that the EU most definitely don’t want the other 26 countries to consider breaking away. Whatever, I’m sure we will manage. We have so far and I truly believe things will get better. Technology, smarter and more efficient systems will evolve for instance cutting time which companies (small and large) need more of for smoother operations.

As regards WTO that ship has sailed anyway.

Continuing to be polite, Urmstongran, as I do appreciate you taking the time to engage civilly.

You haven’t yet answered my questions on the GFA, negotiated agreements for services, and what Rees-Mogg’a evidence base was for his claims. Perhaps you missed those earlier?

You have referenced the EU agreements ‘punishing’ and being unfair to the UK. Could you please explain how they are more punitive and unfair than agreements which exist with other nations with ‘third country’ (in relation to EU trade) status?

Final, for now, polite question: you accept that WTO terms would have been cataclysmic (‘seismic shock’) for the UK. Given that the EU cannot change the terms under which it trades with ‘third country’ nations, no matter what, what would have been achieved by a no-deal Brexit that was important enough to have damaged our social, fiscal and economic well-being so badly?

Oreo

I don’t think anyone’s forum name should be shortened, you only need type it once, and if you use the quote facility not at all.
So you’ll stay Urmstongran to me😃

How long have you been on here Oreo. Names are often shortened. Do we now need a rule written by you? Mine is often Daisy or DA. I don't have a problem with that and I have never seen UG complain.

GrannyGravy13

Urmstongran

Well, the legislation to prevent the right to strike has just been passed in parliament I believe

No, I don’t think that’s quite right MayBee.
Isn’t it something about maintaining a certain level of service by strike action? I’m sure I read something like that. Maybe I’m wrong so I must look it up later.

You are correct Urmstongran

The right to strike is not affected however a basic level service has to be in place during any strike.

I repeatedly ask the same question, but there is no answer from the far right. How, with no minimum safe level of service that governments have to adhere to in normal times, can you work out what a minimum is on strike days?

It is a bastard of a bill. It is being debased by the government every step of the way.

The Committee Stage would be limited to a maximum of five hours.

This phase of the legislative process can normally take days as MPs go over the fine detail of a bill.

The Third Reading would have to be completed within six hours since the start of the Committee Stage.

Dr Alice Lilly, senior researcher at the Institute for Government, told The Standard: “This seems like a short amount of time to scrutinise the bill given how controversial it is.

“What is probably going on here is that the Government knows this bill is likely to run into difficulties in the Lords—where the Government can’t schedule the bill in the same way—and so they are trying to clear the Commons relatively quickly before it potentially gets bogged down in the other House.”

www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/strikes-minimum-service-law-ministers-rail-rmt-nurses-commons-b1052806.html

GrannyGravy13

Urmstongran

Well, the legislation to prevent the right to strike has just been passed in parliament I believe

No, I don’t think that’s quite right MayBee.
Isn’t it something about maintaining a certain level of service by strike action? I’m sure I read something like that. Maybe I’m wrong so I must look it up later.

You are correct Urmstongran

The right to strike is not affected however a basic level service has to be in place during any strike.

Self evidently the Right to Strike IS affected if a proportion of the workforce is required to maintain a basic level of service when previously that was not the case. You can’t deny the reality.

Thank you GG13 for posting that.
It’s too easy to jump on a bandwagon of ‘UK Bad EU Wonderful’ these days to prove a point. Often things are far more nuanced I find.

I think hyperbole about ‘economic’ decline is difficult to extrapolate and pin it on Brexit at the present time MaizieD as there are so many adverse components - indeed many countries are struggling at present.

Time will tell of course.

And as regards ‘animal husbandry’ and feeds I am pretty sure the UK is top of this field somewhere Fleurpepper and we don’t need diktats from the EU about this, nor veterinary practices. If you can prove otherwise I’d be very interested to hear your evidence.

Urmstongran

^Well, the legislation to prevent the right to strike has just been passed in parliament I believe^

No, I don’t think that’s quite right MayBee.
Isn’t it something about maintaining a certain level of service by strike action? I’m sure I read something like that. Maybe I’m wrong so I must look it up later.

You are correct Urmstongran

The right to strike is not affected however a basic level service has to be in place during any strike.