Guy Verhofstadt says “Happy Brexit Day”

MaizieD

Wyllow3

And we can take steps to rejoin aspects of the EU that will benefit us. its not an all or nothing situation.

But as for doing well out of it? Where'e the evidence? We are in an appalling state trade wise.

Well, that's doubtful. There isn't going to be any cherry picking tolerated. If we try to rejoin the single market it'll be with freedom of movement, which won't please our xenophobes.

I'm still waiting for my unicorn and sunny uplands.

And here we have the other extreme.

Wyllow3

And we can take steps to rejoin aspects of the EU that will benefit us. its not an all or nothing situation.

But as for doing well out of it? Where'e the evidence? We are in an appalling state trade wise.

Exactly Wyllow. What I would like to know is why those Brexiteers, such as Urmstongran, who are still fighting old battles, don't agree with such common sense.

What, exactly, are they afraid of?

Nothing discernible lost??? Really??? Energy prices did not fall after Brexit and before the Ukraine war as promised by Stuart. There was no immediate uplift to NHS funding from EU savings. UK citizens lost the right to live and work in the EU. Many businesses were adversely impacted by EU citizens returning home because they felt unwelcome in the UK and feared visa problems. Collaboration on various academic and research programmes came to an end. Some businesses simply gave up trading to Northern Ireland, depriving NI residents of a choice of goods, because of extra form-filling costs and delays (forms which Johnson denied would ever have to be filled in). Other businesses encounter delays, forms and costs exporting to the EU because Johnson failed to negotiate an adequate deal. People had to go to the extra trouble of obtaining Irish and other passports so they could go about their lives. The idea that there have been no disbenefits to individuals and businesses is poppycock.

twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1620422171637211137?t=GNca78XcbS3CjJFhsdbiqg&s=19

Johnson must thank his lucky stars for Covid and his world beating vaccine rollout. Is he now doing adverts for AAH?

MaizieD

^Most people haven’t gained or lost anything discernible since Brexit. I’m convinced good things will happen yet to the benefit of the UK.^

Jesus wept. You must be walking around with your eyes closed.

Not at all. I can only speak as I find amongst my own family, friends, ex colleagues and acquaintances.

MayBee70

I don’t see how brexit can possibly fail with politicians like Rees Mogg, Redwood and Cash behind it. Such intellect and dynamism. The rest of the world must be so envious of us…

Well said MayBee. Sadly this is what we have in this government. So:

No critical financial management skills
No communication and negotiation skills
No leadership skills
No problem solving skills
and an aversion to networking with other leaders

I am sure you can all add to this list but basically nothing we would expect if appointing the leader of anything other than the government.

I wouldn't let them run a corner shop and sadly I think we will be worse off, with more people pushed into poverty, before we get to the next election, when sadly they will magic some treats out of thin air and tell us the last 12 years never happened.

It's the apathy of so many people that gets to me. The standard reply when you want to discuss politics with them seems to be "Oh well, I'm not interested in politics/oh well, they're all the same/oh well, things will sort themselves out. Do some people really care so little or is it that they can't be bothered to take an interest?

Thanks for linking to the Sky/Jacob Rees Mogg interview Urmstongran I'd still like to know where he got that from!
Don't suppose anyone will ever know.

Urmstongran

MayBee70

I don’t recall the leave campaign telling us that it would take years to reap any benefits ( and I have been listening to some of the debates that took place at the time to refresh my memory: in fact, Gisela Stewart, on this very forum, told us that our energy bills would be reduced if we left the EU).

I don’t think the lovely Gisela knew a war with Ukraine was just around the corner ...

We had several years after the referendum and before the war for energy prices to come down.

Most people haven’t gained or lost anything discernible since Brexit. I’m convinced good things will happen yet to the benefit of the UK.

Jesus wept. You must be walking around with your eyes closed.

Urmstongran

Apologies NotSpaghetti - that figure was told to Kay Burley yesterday on SKY news by Jacob Rees Mogg who knows his stuff. Kay pressed him several times about Brexit benefits and he answered her questions thoroughly and politely (as he always does).

He may be polite, but he is mendacious. There was no EU furlough scheme, individual countries determined their own programmes, so the UK would have spent £70bn regardless of EU membership.

And similarly with QE. If he is he referring to ECB decisions, they only impact the Eurozone. Non-Euro countries can determine their own monetary policies. If not, what did he mean?

I did not see the interview, so could be misinterpreting his views. Can you please explain his rationale and evidence base, so I can retract if necessary? Thank you.

MayBee70

I don’t recall the leave campaign telling us that it would take years to reap any benefits ( and I have been listening to some of the debates that took place at the time to refresh my memory: in fact, Gisela Stewart, on this very forum, told us that our energy bills would be reduced if we left the EU).

I don’t think the lovely Gisela knew a war with Ukraine was just around the corner ...

Urmstongran

We were in the EU for over 40 years. As I’ve said, this uncoupling will be a journey not a quick ‘event’. I’m a patient soul. Let’s see where we are in a few years’ time and then judge. Doomsters at the time we’re saying the sky would fall in. It didn’t. Most people haven’t gained or lost anything discernible since Brexit. I’m convinced good things will happen yet to the benefit of the UK.

I was (and am) one of the doomsters. I never said the sky would fall in, quite the contrary I said we would bleed to death slowly.

I'm not sure why people think being out of the EU means we'll lose employment rights etc etc. Did the UK not introduce a lot of employment laws long before we joined?

Because the Bill which is passing through Parliament does away with a massive ( calculated to be almost 4,000) amount of legislation which incorporates EU law. Which includes workers rights, working time directives, product standards and environmental protections. These are all supposed to lapse by the end of this year, 'if' the legislation goes through. There is absolutely no time in which to draft and bring into law substitutes for all of the lapsed legislation.

This includes any legislation which existed before joining the then EEC which has subsequently included EU law.

When you look at the rightwingers controlling this government, and their beliefs, they will not be in any hurry to bring in measures which they believe to be anti business... You can see the trends already with draconian anti strike legislation...

davidallengreen.com/2023/01/bonfire-of-red-tape/

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jan/18/brexit-eu-law-democracy-rishi-sunak

Leaving the EU will not restore us to the happy state which existed pre 1973. That exists merely as a Leavers' fantasy.

I don’t recall the leave campaign telling us that it would take years to reap any benefits ( and I have been listening to some of the debates that took place at the time to refresh my memory: in fact, Gisela Stewart, on this very forum, told us that our energy bills would be reduced if we left the EU).

We were in the EU for over 40 years. As I’ve said, this uncoupling will be a journey not a quick ‘event’. I’m a patient soul. Let’s see where we are in a few years’ time and then judge. Doomsters at the time we’re saying the sky would fall in. It didn’t. Most people haven’t gained or lost anything discernible since Brexit. I’m convinced good things will happen yet to the benefit of the UK.

EU workers, I should have typed.

There have been no discernible benefits from Brexit for ordinary people, not did Rees-Mogg manage to dream any up when he was Minister for Brexit Opportunities (or was it Silly Walks?) and there is no sign of future benefits. Most of the trade deals done are carbon copies of what we already enjoyed in the EU, we are still paying significant sums to the EU (rightly) to honour past commitments and there is no prospect of a US trade deal. The NI protocol is a disaster which Johnson completely denied and we lost the valuable skills of EU who went home in droves. And we have added to the costs faced by SME businesses exporting to the EU, some of whom are teetering on the brink of bankruptcy as a result. Brexit was mis-sold on the ridiculous delusions of sovereignty and anti-immigration, immigration which we need to support the NHS and other industries.

Urmstongran, no, other factors - which, as you point out, affect other countries - are not muddying the waters, otherwise there would not be such a stark difference in British economic and social performance.

Can you please provide a source (an evidence based one, not GBNews or a random bod on Twitter) for the figures you quote in your OP.

Apologies NotSpaghetti - that figure was told to Kay Burley yesterday on SKY news by Jacob Rees Mogg who knows his stuff. Kay pressed him several times about Brexit benefits and he answered her questions thoroughly and politely (as he always does).

I think other factors are muddying the water still. WFH, high gas prices etc - you all know what they are - just look at Europe too.

Where are the OP statistics ftom though?
I can't find them.

One of my acquaintances is a retired consultant paediatrician who weighed up the pro’s and con’s presented at the time of the Referendum and voted to Leave. Like me, no regrets.

MaizieD

^I think Leave voters are 'aware', but don't connect the government's corruption and chaos with Brexit.^

There are Leave voters who claim to be intelligent. How can the fact that they elected this truly disgusting government to 'get Brexit done' be unconnected in their minds with Brexit?

I know a few Leave voters. I'd say a consultant and barrister are reasonably intelligent

I'm not sure why people think being out of the EU means we'll lose employment rights etc etc. Did the UK not introduce a lot of employment laws long before we joined?

I voted Remain

To be honest I am still struggling to process the image engendered by the earlier post up thread.
"Head down, bum up, and work towards a fair trading agreement."
🤔