The 10 awkward questions you should throw at an EU 'Rejoiner'

Siope

^It happened - live with it. That’s democracy^

Democracy also depends includes the right to debate, disagree, campaign, protest (despite this government’s views on that) and use our votes to bring about change.

Dismissive arguments like ‘live with it’, by which you seem to mean that no matter how bad and damaging a policy position is, nobody should ever attempt to change it, is not democracy in any way.

Not, I meant ‘live with it’ as representing the present. It’s where we are.

See www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/feb/11/revealed-secret-cross-party-summit-held-to-confront-failings-of-brexit?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

At last someone is using their brain and hopefully without all the 'f*ck business', blaming the French, blaming the EU for decisions our Ministers voted for at Council, etc., associated with Johnson and the rest of the backwoodsmen. It will take years to dig the UK out of the economic hole. The economic growth we once had under Blair has to be regained so we have enough taxation income to support the public services we need. Flag waving won't pay for that.

More evidence

The Cabinet Office run by Michael Gove was officially reprimanded by the UK Statistics Authority for using unpublished & unverifiable data in an attempt to deny that Brexit had caused a massive fall in volumes of trade through British ports. The Road Hauliers Association - 68%

ExperiencedNotOld

I don’t know where the money has gone - but could hazard a guess that much cash went on vaccines, testing, track and trace, PPE, hand wash, Eat out to…, furlough payments, business support et al. All costs never factored in by those clamouring to rejoin and criticising the government for financial woes.
I did vote leave and I did understand, after much research, what I was voting for. My husband vote to stay, but he too spent much time making that decision. We’ve never fallen out about it, respecting each other’s right to their own opinion.
I truly believe we cannot go backwards and that a life apart from the EU is our only future.

Sensible comments.
I voted to stay but with some reservations.
Any Brexit losses are as nothing to the massive Covid expense to the economy.Early days still innit? Things will sort themselves out eventually.

We won’t be rejoining the EU so just need to do the best we can, which is what Keir Starmer said the other week.

I am content to wait and see what labour do if they get voted into office. For reasons outlined before, Starmer is determined not to give fuel to the Brexit headbangers. Joining the EU will take at least 10 years as the U.K. is certainly unable to meet the Copenhagen criteria at the moment. There will be a number of hurdles to negotiate, so joining is not an option as things stand, however closer working most certainly is and once the far right are no longer in power, with a strangle hold on the government, we will be able to see our way clear to act in the UKs best interest.

That is what Starmer is imo recognising. A common sense approach with little option at present to do anything else.

Stealing labours thunder again.

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Bloomberg UK

@BloombergUK
·
Feb 11
NEW: Prime Minister Rishi Sunak has privately asked senior ministers and officials to draw up plans for rebuilding the UK’s relations with the European Union after years of acrimony since Brexit

Feb 11
NEW: Prime Minister Rishi Sunak has privately asked senior ministers and officials to draw up plans for rebuilding the UK’s relations with the European Union after years of acrimony since Brexit

I don't think that will go down too well with the ERG.

Mark Francois will be rallying the troops.

Whitewavemark2

Stealing labours thunder again.

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Bloomberg UK

@BloombergUK
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Feb 11
NEW: Prime Minister Rishi Sunak has privately asked senior ministers and officials to draw up plans for rebuilding the UK’s relations with the European Union after years of acrimony since Brexit

Stealing Labour’s thunder??

For goodness sake, whatever you might think of a political party or the individuals within, after reference to their civil service, those people make pragmatic decisions based on the evidence available.

This is my first post on a political forum and arises from genuine curiosity. I'd like to understand how important it would be for the UK to retain its 'sovereign currency' should the UK enter discussions about rejoining the EU?

I can't see UK being allowed to rejoin the EU without adopting the Euro. Am I wrong to feel that we can't go back unless we retain the ability for the UK government to be a currency issuer? However, I don't think it should rule out a close relationship with our neighbours but should adopting the Euro be a deal-breaker to the extent it excludes our rejoining?

I don’t think the Euro would be a deal breaker for the EU because there are many members who have their own currency.

If Sunak is serious about building bridges with the EU with a large majority he can afford to ignore much of the ERG opinion, what that is actually going to achieve is another matter.

ExperiencedNotOld

Whitewavemark2

Stealing labours thunder again.

Business profile picture
Bloomberg UK

@BloombergUK
·
Feb 11
NEW: Prime Minister Rishi Sunak has privately asked senior ministers and officials to draw up plans for rebuilding the UK’s relations with the European Union after years of acrimony since Brexit

Stealing Labour’s thunder??

For goodness sake, whatever you might think of a political party or the individuals within, after reference to their civil service, those people make pragmatic decisions based on the evidence available.

That’s not true though is it? If ‘after reference to their civil service, those people make pragmatic decisions based on the evidence available’ we would not have left the EU in the first place because the evidence didn’t support that course of action.

Missedout

This is my first post on a political forum and arises from genuine curiosity. I'd like to understand how important it would be for the UK to retain its 'sovereign currency' should the UK enter discussions about rejoining the EU?

I can't see UK being allowed to rejoin the EU without adopting the Euro. Am I wrong to feel that we can't go back unless we retain the ability for the UK government to be a currency issuer? However, I don't think it should rule out a close relationship with our neighbours but should adopting the Euro be a deal-breaker to the extent it excludes our rejoining?

I think you're absolutely right to want out government to hold onto its ability to issue our currency. Look at how poor Greece was hammered by austerity at the insistence of the European Central Bank, where the policy (which is highly contested) of 'balanced budgets' and low deficits holds sway.

I think we would have to agree to 'work towards' joining the euro, but Sweden has been doing that for many years and still has its own currency... I'm sure it could be fudged...

MaizieD

Missedout

This is my first post on a political forum and arises from genuine curiosity. I'd like to understand how important it would be for the UK to retain its 'sovereign currency' should the UK enter discussions about rejoining the EU?

I can't see UK being allowed to rejoin the EU without adopting the Euro. Am I wrong to feel that we can't go back unless we retain the ability for the UK government to be a currency issuer? However, I don't think it should rule out a close relationship with our neighbours but should adopting the Euro be a deal-breaker to the extent it excludes our rejoining?

I think you're absolutely right to want out government to hold onto its ability to issue our currency. Look at how poor Greece was hammered by austerity at the insistence of the European Central Bank, where the policy (which is highly contested) of 'balanced budgets' and low deficits holds sway.

I think we would have to agree to 'work towards' joining the euro, but Sweden has been doing that for many years and still has its own currency... I'm sure it could be fudged...

Yes I think that is correct.

If Sunak is serious about building bridges with the EU with a large majority he can afford to ignore much of the ERG opinion, what that is actually going to achieve is another matter.

I'm not sure that I'd agree with you there, Katie59. The ERG/Brexiter wing of the parliamentary party is probably large enough to destroy his majority (which has diminished a trifle from Johnson's 80) if he tries to put through proposals which don't suit them.

They might even try to dethrone him; rumour has it that the 1922 committee are looking to change their rules...

Nothing awkward about any of the questions, they are just fatuous.

If we rejoin the EC we sign back up to all the rules that we were signed up to when we were a member plus any that have been brought in since.

And the next, hopefully, this time, a sensible question is.....?

Casdon

ExperiencedNotOld

Whitewavemark2

Stealing labours thunder again.

Business profile picture
Bloomberg UK

@BloombergUK
·
Feb 11
NEW: Prime Minister Rishi Sunak has privately asked senior ministers and officials to draw up plans for rebuilding the UK’s relations with the European Union after years of acrimony since Brexit

Stealing Labour’s thunder??

For goodness sake, whatever you might think of a political party or the individuals within, after reference to their civil service, those people make pragmatic decisions based on the evidence available.

That’s not true though is it? If ‘after reference to their civil service, those people make pragmatic decisions based on the evidence available’ we would not have left the EU in the first place because the evidence didn’t support that course of action.

And that’s your opinion, not supported by evidence. I am a civil servant and am part of the machine that offers that pragmatic advice. What we can’t be responsible for is loose cannons choosing to ignore it. Whether that’s happened or not isn’t something we can do more that speculate about.

And that’s your opinion, not supported by evidence. I am a civil servant and am part of the machine that offers that pragmatic advice. What we can’t be responsible for is loose cannons choosing to ignore it. Whether that’s happened or not isn’t something we can do more that speculate about.

This seems to be rather at odds with your previous statement about people making pragmatic decisions based on the evidence available.

Why all the complaints about 'Remainer civil servants' thwarting the will of the government ministers?

And all the 'loose cannon' who did ignore the advice they were given, to the extent of driving Permanent Secretaries out of their jobs, or sacking them?

ExperiencedNotOld

Casdon

ExperiencedNotOld

Whitewavemark2

Stealing labours thunder again.

Business profile picture
Bloomberg UK

@BloombergUK
·
Feb 11
NEW: Prime Minister Rishi Sunak has privately asked senior ministers and officials to draw up plans for rebuilding the UK’s relations with the European Union after years of acrimony since Brexit

Stealing Labour’s thunder??

For goodness sake, whatever you might think of a political party or the individuals within, after reference to their civil service, those people make pragmatic decisions based on the evidence available.

That’s not true though is it? If ‘after reference to their civil service, those people make pragmatic decisions based on the evidence available’ we would not have left the EU in the first place because the evidence didn’t support that course of action.

And that’s your opinion, not supported by evidence. I am a civil servant and am part of the machine that offers that pragmatic advice. What we can’t be responsible for is loose cannons choosing to ignore it. Whether that’s happened or not isn’t something we can do more that speculate about.

We know it didn’t happen with Brexit, there is plenty of evidence. Of course the civil service provides pragmatic advice - which ministers are at liberty to ignore if it doesn’t suit their narrative.
theconversation.com/the-civil-service-must-keep-calm-and-carry-on-with-brexit-but-can-it-65506

"It happened - live with it. That’s democracy."

Democracy requires a strong and robust opposition, otherwise it's a dictatorship.

Yes, but democracy is showing a growing disillusionment with Brexit, whether that is because Brexit was flawed from the start or whether it is caused by the failure of the party in power for the last 13 years to make it work, is actually irrelevant.

At the end of the day, it isn't working and a way has to be found to make it work and an enlightened and unprejudiced examination of it must take place to see what should be done to make it work. It may requir some measures to open parts of the divide and other measures to close the gap in places.

The only thing that is certain, is that, at the moment, Brexit is just not delivering the oods.

Brexit is water under the bridge and it's clear that neither the Cons not Labour will seek to rejoin the EU for various reasons, chiefly political self-interest. But we must renegotiate a future in partnership with the EU across a wide front of activities. It is beginning to look as though some politicians and company bosses are starting to feel their way towards that instead of merely following Johnson down the rabbit hole of 'f*ck business', blame the French, abolishing all regulations a la Rees-Mogg and global Britain flag waving. It's going to take years to retrieve many of the advantages conferred by EU membership and to dig the UK out of the no/low growth pit the Tories have dug through austerity but a start has to be made despite IDS and the far Right on the backbenches.

There's no doubt that Brexit has soured relationships particularly across the Channel in France. I realise we can't just sweep stuff under the carpet, so how does everyone go forward and renegotiate a new future? We can't have all that ridiculous Theresa May va et vient again.
Is there a retrievable solution?

Yes if the ERG and red wing press get squashed and common sense prevails