Politics are moderating in the U.K.

Aveline

Any of the people arriving here in rubber boats appear to be economic migrants rather than genuine asylum seekers. It's not government propaganda. The presence of the large number of Albanian men alone give rise to concern.

They might 'appear to be' to you, Aveline, but until their applications for asylum have been properly processed then no-one actually knows who is and who isn't.

The government is deliberately dragging its feet over this, even using inappropriate, inflammatory, language, to keep you all on the boil.

I agree with you Amalegra👏🏻👏🏻

Aveline

Any of the people arriving here in rubber boats appear to be economic migrants rather than genuine asylum seekers. It's not government propaganda. The presence of the large number of Albanian men alone give rise to concern.

It’s said that Albanians make up about 40% of those arriving illegally on small boats who then claim asylum.
Albania isn’t like the UK but is a safe country.Germany doesn’t grant asylum to any who arrive in their country, they are sent back.
I don’t think the government treats them ‘badly’ but hotels aren’t the right thing, purpose built accommodation needed building years ago, maybe MOD disused camps where they could have their own private housing.
It’s a huge cause for concern all round, any government is going to really have to deal with this, including the next Labour one.

I'd like to add that I live in an urban area which receives a lot of refugees, the vast majority of whom have suffered dreadful losses. The British government has been involved in selling arms in the wars that have devastated some of the home countries in question and, more generally, the wealthy elite (not the ordinary citizens) of Europe and the USA cannot be absolved of responsibility for the poverty and destitution of much of the rest of the world. The refugees that I have come to know are resourceful and would be an asset to any employer. They are very keen indeed to work and contribute to society - they ask for nothing more than for their claims to be processed quickly, so that they can do so. We have a post-Brexit shortage of workers in retail, hospitality and health and social care in my city. It is absurd (although logical in terms of a right-wing scapegoating agenda) that the British govt has refused the French government's offer to enable claims to be processed in France, so that asylum seekers can use safe routes.

Any of the people arriving here in rubber boats appear to be economic migrants rather than genuine asylum seekers. It's not government propaganda. The presence of the large number of Albanian men alone give rise to concern.

Ilovecheese

I agree strongly with Glorianny and nightowl
The centre has certainly moved closer to the right. if by moderation you mean both the Government and the main opposition parties not wanting to change anything very much then yes.
There is no longer any left wing.
Both parties want more private providers in the NHS.
Both parties don't seem to have any willingness to welcome refugees.
Keir Starmer has made it very clear that anyone who would like to see a bit more social justice will not be welcome in his party. (and he does call it HIS party)

Succinctly put! Something like opposing more privatisation of the NHS is a moderate view, but is now ruled out by both our 'moderate' parties. Who are the extremists?

Apparently the tory government has realised that it will not stand a cat in hells chance of winning the election on either its record or policies. It is therefore intending playing a very dirty game by stoking the culture wars - so expect to read and hear a lot about “others” like immigrants, and any other group that they can hopefully redirect the voters focus.

Over to you Braverman, Anderson and the like - they will be more than willing participants.

I’m not sure about moderation anymore - here in the USA, or there, or anywhere. People are digging in deeper and deeper, it seems. The world is changing.

I’m sick over it as anyone. I see the political landscape pretty much like the economy, rising prices… everything escalates and skyrockets during a crisis or upheaval - NEVER to recede back to a normal level.

It’s sad to think that it’s always going to stay this way. I hope I’m wrong.
USA Gundy

Thank you Castafiore. I agree with your post wholeheartedly.

Ooops! Not sure how the extra "not" crept into my last post.

Aveline

Amalegra speaks for a lot of people. No point coming down on her like a ton of bricks. People in areas with a lot of boat people see things very differently from those of us living further away and in nice middle class enclaves.

In that case, a lot of people are misguided. Asylum seekers are not illegal immigrants.

Please note that I have never claimed that having thousands of people waiting the outcome of asylum applications is not without problems.

However, I object strongly to the misuse of the word "illegal". There is nothing illegal about applying for asylum in the UK.

Amalegra

I think the British people make genuine refugees as welcome as they can. Afghanistan, Hong Kong, Ukraine-all these countries’ citizens we have welcomed recently. Whether the Government can AFFORD to do more is a moot point. We have thousands of illegal migrants, NOT refugees, from safe countries who are costing us millions daily in hotels whilst we have a failing social housing system, families in substandard and temporary accommodation and a growing homeless problem. I am a fairly moderate person but this continuing failure of successive governments,Tory and Labour, to address the housing problem and the migrant crisis is shocking and needs some more definite action than empty promises and liberal dreams. I await more than words from the PM and his would-be counterpart as I’m sure many others impacted in their local areas do. I note that many of the more prominent middle class supporters of free entry for all, live far away from the areas with high numbers of our illegal guests!

Amalegra the expensive policy of holding asylum seekers in hotels and refusing them permission to work is a deliberate one. These people want to work, businesses want to employ them, and the Migration Advisory Committee has said they should be allowed to work. The government refuses to act on their advice, perhaps because they want to fuel and encourage hatred and division.
If these people worked they could pay taxes and they could afford better accommodation. As it is they are left in limbo sometimes for years, waiting for their asylum request to be processed. If there is a crisis it has been bought on by the Tory government's failure to act.

The EU was not initially supported by the left because it was designed to facilitate free movement of people and capital, and thereby accelerated the relocation of industry to low-wage countries, leading to deindustrialisation and unemployment in countries like the UK. However, The EU did also promote environmental (e.g. clean beaches) and employment protections (e.g. maternity leave, sick pay), which were under such threat from a Tory government that most of the left, including Corbyn, came to support it as a kind of bastion of social democracy. Corbyn made more speeches in favour of Remain than any other Labour politician during the run-up to the referendum, and his '7.5 out of 10' proved useful on the doorstep in opening the debate with convinced Leavers. After Leave won, Corbyn's position was to respect the result, and to negotiate a soft Brexit. This, along with a mildly social-democratic manifesto (admittedly moderate positions like not running public services for shareholder profit are now viewed as the outer shores of crazed leftism by our billionaire-owned press), won 30 seats back from the Tories in 2017, the first time since 1997 that Labour had gained as opposed to losing seats.
But 2019 was different. Starmer as shadow minister for Brexit (with the support of conference and the shadow cabinet, mainly Remainers) imposed the second referendum policy, against Corbyn's judgement, and Leavers were furious that their vote was going to be annulled. Of the 60 seats lost on 2019, 58 were Brexit seats. And, of course, there was the demonisation of Corbyn, which has continued ever since. Starmer has suspended or disqualified almost 60 left-wing Jews. He has failed to support strikers, in spite of the fact that public opinion is generally with them. And he's kept up the anti-immigrant populist rhetoric that avoids addressing the structural inequalities that blight our country. He wraps himself in the Union flag (whereas Corbyn drew attention to the plight of homeless veterans and proposed pay rises for the armed forces) and demands unconditional support for NATO, suppressing any serious discussion about how to end this dreadful war. He is an extremist.

It's time that 'a lot of people' stopped listening to government propaganda and learned the truth.

They should be very angry with the government that is, IMO, deliberately treating these asylum seekers very badly and using them as a weapon. Whipping up hatred against the 'others' was something that the Nazis did. The UK should be better than that.

I would have thought that moderation is the last thing we need….. change is necessary …and that never came with moderation but always had to be fought for!

Amalegra speaks for a lot of people. No point coming down on her like a ton of bricks. People in areas with a lot of boat people see things very differently from those of us living further away and in nice middle class enclaves.

You sound very confused, Amalegra. And not at all moderate, I'm afraid.

This has been explained time and time again on this forum. The people wo have arrived via the small boats are not 'illegal', and unless you are a Home Office employee tasked with processing their asylum applications and know for a fact that every single one of them is here under false pretences, then calling them 'illegal' is wrong and deliberately inflammatory.

It has also been pointed out that:

a) Johnson refused to take up the French offer of a facility to process their asylum applications in France, which would have meant that any bogus claimants could be returned to their country of origin and the bona fide claimants could come to the UK by safe routes and be entitled to look for work when they got here

b) The Home Office has suffered so much from the tories cutting their budgets over the past decade that it is understaffed and unable to deal with all asylum applications in a timely manner. The £millions you complain of being spent on hotels would be better spent in recruiting and training more staff to get the claimants through the system faster.

85% plus of asylum applications are approved, which rather shows that your insistence that they are all 'illegal' is badly mistaken.

Lack of vital infrastructure, GPs, hospitals, schools etc. is the result of tory 'austerity' over the past 13 years, it is not the fault of the refugees.

No, we do not have thousands of illegal migrants!! We have thousands of asylum seekers whose claims have not been processed. According to international law, they have done absolutely nothing illegal.

amalegra

I’m not sure what legal definition you are using when you describe “illegal migrants”

You maybe falling into the government propaganda trap of using the term but without international law to support it.

Asylum seekers and refugee status is governed by recognised international law - to which the U.K. is signed up.

I think the British people make genuine refugees as welcome as they can. Afghanistan, Hong Kong, Ukraine-all these countries’ citizens we have welcomed recently. Whether the Government can AFFORD to do more is a moot point. We have thousands of illegal migrants, NOT refugees, from safe countries who are costing us millions daily in hotels whilst we have a failing social housing system, families in substandard and temporary accommodation and a growing homeless problem. I am a fairly moderate person but this continuing failure of successive governments,Tory and Labour, to address the housing problem and the migrant crisis is shocking and needs some more definite action than empty promises and liberal dreams. I await more than words from the PM and his would-be counterpart as I’m sure many others impacted in their local areas do. I note that many of the more prominent middle class supporters of free entry for all, live far away from the areas with high numbers of our illegal guests!

And China and Russia - state capitalism.

And you might want to ask people in India for example the impact capitalism has had on raising people out of poverty.

Eh? Democracy and capitalism aren't mutually exclusive.

We don’t have Democracy, we have Capitalism. Money talks and that is why energy companies are ripping off customers to make unprecedented profits, and water companies have until 2030 to stop pouring raw sewage into our rivers and seas. There was an orchestrated campaign against Corbyn who threatened the established order because he wanted ordinary people to benefit from the wealth our country generates. He wasn’t a Marxist as the brown nosed, brain dead and biased media painted him. There is even evidence that the whole anti-semitism was cooked up to expel him from the Labour Party - because the majority of Labour Party members wanted him, with party numbers being higer than they had ever been. It is a fallacy to say ‘If you don’t vote you can’t complain’ - I live in an overwhelmingly Conservative area, so it matters not who I vote for, or even if I vote at all. There IS enough money to pay our public services decent wages, we just have to collect it from overseas tax havens and huge corporations telling HMRC what they want to pay.

This is a great summing up of why Starmer is wrong, the historic involvement of MPs in strikes, with a great comment from Tony Benn. Well worth a read unherd.com/2022/08/how-labour-abandoned-the-unions/